The Official 2023 MLB Amateur Draft Thread

[Angel Oracle]

I don’t understand paying full #11 slot value for a guy projected to go near the end of the 1st round.

Can someone help enlighten me on that?

[Make Angels Great Again]

Here's a funny comp for Schanuel.

How about a healthy Nick Johnson? That dude was a big first baseman who had the best batters eye I could remember. But he simply couldn't stay healthy.

His best year he hit .290/.428/.520 110 walks to 98 Ks. 23 Homers, 100 runs scored and 5.0 WAR in 2006. At age 20 in AA his OBP was a hilarious .525.

If you wouldn't be happy with that, something is wrong with you.

[Angels in 2030]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

Gramps? Fuck right off with that bullshit. I posted a list. And I guarantee I am younger than you.

Yeah, a list that couldn't find anyone within the last 33 years lol.  Don't get mad at me for you taking a bad position and making an idiotic post.  It happens dude...wear it with pride.    

[totdprods]

34 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Here's a funny comp for Schanuel.

How about a healthy Nick Johnson? That dude was a big first baseman who had the best batters eye I could remember. But he simply couldn't stay healthy.

His best year he hit .290/.428/.520 110 walks to 98 Ks. 23 Homers, 100 runs scored and 5.0 WAR in 2006. At age 20 in AA his OBP was a hilarious .525.

If you wouldn't be happy with that, something is wrong with you.

It’s a decent comp. Injuries played a part, but he only accrued 14.5 WAR, more than a third of that in the one season you mentioned.

Schanuel seems to be far more contact-oriented though…the BB% rate is there, but seems Schanuel may make contact on a more regular basis than banking the number of walks that Johnson did.

Personally, the more realistic Schanuel outcome I see is something akin to Yandy Diaz. If his eye/contact skills are so strong, I’m hoping he’s a .300+ guy with 40 doubles, 60 BB to 60 K kinda hitter. Sort of Rendonesque too. Kotch is a good comp too. I just hope he’s more in that realm than another Matt Thaiss, who also had significantly more walks (37) than k (16) in his final college year.

Again, it’s not that I dislike Schanuel. I’m just not sure he was the best pick at full slot at #11 given the current state of the team’s needs and what’s usually available on the FA/trade market. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by totdprods

[Chuck]

Everything you need to know and more on the Angels '23 Draft Class

 

[mmc]

 

[Hubs]

2 hours ago, Skips said:

Yeah, a list that couldn't find anyone within the last 33 years lol.  Don't get mad at me for you taking a bad position and making an idiotic post.  It happens dude...wear it with pride.    

Coming from the dude whose avatar is the 1970's Angels Logo. 

It's not an idiotic post, it was a list from baseball reference. Some may find it useful. I like the pick, I dont care where a guy plays unless it's a) a college bat in a position of need (ie why they passed on Teel, Gonzalez), b) if the guy can hit and shows that its not all metal bat bullshit 

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, Skips said:

Yeah, a list that couldn't find anyone within the last 33 years lol.  Don't get mad at me for you taking a bad position and making an idiotic post.  It happens dude...wear it with pride.    

Dude, calm down. 

[ArkyAngelsFan]

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I don’t understand paying full #11 slot value for a guy projected to go near the end of the 1st round.

Can someone help enlighten me on that?

Yeah,  I don't understand this whole draft at all. For some reason I am not anywhere near as excited like I was the last two years of drafts under Perry. Not sure why but that's the feeling/impression I'm getting.

Just doesn't seem to be any sizzle with this steak to use the old saying.....

 

~ArkyAngelsFan~

[aznhockeyguy]

46 minutes ago, ArkyAngelsFan said:

Yeah,  I don't understand this whole draft at all. For some reason I am not anywhere near as excited like I was the last two years of drafts under Perry. Not sure why but that's the feeling/impression I'm getting.

Just doesn't seem to be any sizzle with this steak to use the old saying.....

 

~ArkyAngelsFan~

I agree with you, this draft is full of safe picks.  Sure some of them will make the majors, but the ceiling isn't very high.

[Dave Saltzer]

10 hours ago, totdprods said:

Why does that matter? That’s in the past. They didn’t need to acquire one for 9.5 years because of Albert, and then their next in line was an immediate All-Star before whatever happened out of the blue to him, be it health or otherwise. It wasn’t a need until recently. 

It proves both of our points, but they’ve been able to bring in about a half-dozen guys to cover 1B this year either internally or externally and no, no one has taken it, but also shows how easy it is to acquire potential options for it. It hasn’t happened, but if one guy sticks and puts up an .800 OPS - nothing wild - then it’s done. 

What do we do with Schanuel if Rendon is at 1B for the rest of his contract? What if Thaiss is retained due to the catchers holding it down? What if Drury sticks at 1B next year because Paris and Neto are up the middle and Rendon is at 3B? What if Sonny DiChiara winds up hitting again? 

I like Schanuel just fine, it’s just a somewhat limiting pick when there were three guys in Gonzales, Troy, and Shaw who I think would have fit the teams needs - now and later - better, and would’ve been easier to convert to other positions as needed. And it’s traditionally much more difficult to acquire above-average midinfielders than it is 1B/corner outfield, regardless of the Angels struggling to do that in recent years (though they haven’t done much better elsewhere in the IF either)

A few things here my friend. I'm enjoying the discussion, as always.

First, you are right, we have "covered" 1B. But, outside of 1 good year from Walsh, we haven't done well at the position for a long time. Sure, we can blame that on Albert, but we also didn't have anyone to push him off the base either. And, we haven't develo0ped a left-handed MOTO bat (again, outside of 1 good year of Walsh and of course, Ohtani), in a while.

 

I see Schanuel as a premium bat who happens to play 1B. As such, I'm thrilled with the pick (although I really thought that we could get him below slot--oh well). I am guessing those who aren't thrilled with this see him as a 1B first who may have a premium bat. I guess it's all what one chooses to focus on.

 

Frankly, I think it's a LOT easier to get a 2B or even a 3B than it is an elite hitting 1B. Most of the Latin players that we sign internationally are MIFers who can be moved to other positions. Most of the 16 year olds that we sign from Latin America play SS and then get moved as they fill out to 2B and 3B if they have the power. )again, not counting pitchers or OFers). We don't know who they are looking at this year internationally, but looking at our top prospect list, we have have several MIFers who can be moved to 2B or 3B. Most teams have a lot of players who fall into that category.

 

Looking at MLB's Top 100 prospects, only 3 are 1B or split time at 1B. Now, before you argue that it's because of the defensive limitations, it also has to do with the lack of premium bats at the position as well. If Schanuel develops as projected (.280/.380/.520), that would make him one of the Top=5 at the position, essentially an All-Star at his peak. I would like to have a long-term solution like that, and I would like to have a major bat like that in our lineup. I would like to have a set 1B to develop with Neto, O'Hoppe, Quero, etc. With Neto using the bounce throw, having a good defender at1B is very important. 

 

Overall, I think last year's draft may be one of our best in a decade. The year before is a success, and this year will be a success (using the definition of success as producing 1 player with a 5-year career_. 

True, other players may develop, like Sonny D. If that happens, that's gravy and things will work their way out. We can worry about that if and when it happens. 

[Dave Saltzer]

6 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

But he doesn't play 3B...

I know he doesn't, which is why I responding to a question of "if he played 3B"....

[ArkyAngelsFan]

9 hours ago, Trendon said:

If all that happens, then the Angels would be in a fortunate position. Having “too many good players” is a good problem to have.

Rendon can barely stay healthy now. I have zero expectation of him being healthy in 2025 or 2026. And even if he’s healthy, I’m not sure how productive he’d even be at that point.

And the writing is on the wall for Walsh’s tenure with the Angels.

Or we could just cut Rendon and say good bye to him like we did Pujols and Justin Upton. It certainly didn't adversely affect us one way or the other as neither player was missed in the least....

Sometimes ya just do what ya gotta do.

~ArkyAngelsFan~

[Blarg]

8 hours ago, Skips said:

You're seriously not referencing 1989 are you?  34 years ago.....34 lol oooh my.  I'm kind of embarrassed for you .  The fact you using something from 34 years ago to support it should tell you all that you need to know here.  

First player I thought of. 

How about Matt Olsen for the A's in 2012?

Christian Yellich was actually drafted as a 1st baseman back in 2010.

CJ Cron was drafted as a 1st baseman in 2011. 

Hosmer, Yonder Alonzo and Justin Smoak all in 2008 in fact there were 7 players that year drafted as 1st basemen.

I know this is before your formative years but in 2002 Fielder, Swisher and Loney all drafted as 1st baseman. 

There were 2 drafted in 2019, 4 in 2017, 2 in 2015, 2 in 2012, 7 in 2008, and 3 in 2007. 

In the last 20 drafts there has only been 3 years a 1st baseman wasn't drafted in the 1st round, 2004, 2006 and 2021.

 

So, I guess that is all I really need to know about you as well. All insults and nothing of substance. 

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Would apeshit be resigning Ohtani and signing Yamamoto?

No.... Spending the nearly 100 mil that they could potentially free up would be.

[Inside Pitch]

17 hours ago, Hubs said:

Coming from the dude whose avatar is the 1970's Angels Logo. 

It's not an idiotic post, it was a list from baseball reference. Some may find it useful. I like the pick, I dont care where a guy plays unless it's a) a college bat in a position of need (ie why they passed on Teel, Gonzalez), b) if the guy can hit and shows that its not all metal bat bullshit 

I think the point he's making is that MLB views 1B differently than they used to.  DH too.  The onus has shifted to finding power/offense at premium defensive positions, so draft strategies have also shifted.

Frank Thomas was an absolute beast coming out of college, possibly the surest bet ever.

[Inside Pitch]

14 hours ago, Dave Saltzer said:

Looking at MLB's Top 100 prospects, only 3 are 1B or split time at 1B. Now, before you argue that it's because of the defensive limitations, it also has to do with the lack of premium bats at the position as well. If Schanuel develops as projected (.280/.380/.520), that would make him one of the Top=5 at the position, essentially an All-Star at his peak. I would like to have a long-term solution like that, and I would like to have a major bat like that in our lineup. I would like to have a set 1B to develop with Neto, O'Hoppe, Quero, etc. With Neto using the bounce throw, having a good defender at1B is very important.

My opinion of prospect rankings is pretty well known, but the reason you don't see as many 1B making top 100s as you used to is entirely due to defensive limitations.  For a 1B to truly stand out enough to turn heads and get hyped they need to be pushing 70/80 grades with the bat because offense is expected.  It's a built in bias not unlike the one baked into the various WAR models.  

People are trying too hard to "defend" this pick.  It's fine to question if they wouldn't have been better off trying to get more upside at a more premium position, that's the way the game is played now.  But the pick is fine, the plate discipline makes this as good a bet as you can possibly find in the draft. This kid may be an extreme example of a MLB ready bat, even if the power lags behind that of a typical 1Bman. The pick is also boring because its hard to envision superstardom, but people really shouldn't be expecting that from the 11th pick. 

Now, if anyone needs an example of why some may find the pick underwhelming we need look no further than Matt Thaiss. Many viewed him as the most advanced college bat in the draft when he was chosen, his strength was also his well balanced hit tool and plus plate discipline -- moving him to 1B was supposed to possibly get more out of him offensively...  Everyone knows how that's played out.

If I were to try to make a case for why this pick isn't as bad as some think I'd point to the fact that teams have a shit ton more data than they used to and are much more reliant on those data points than they previously were. There are stat-cast machines in every college stadium now.  There is a shit ton more info on how guys fare vs pitch types and contact rate data.  The on base skills with this kid are extremely elite, and its not a power fueled type situation where pitchers tried to pitch around him, he's just a bit of an oddity in the sense that he's a 1B with stupid good bat to ball skills and a ridiculous eye.

When people hear elite bat to ball rates and contact skills they typically think about the hitter types most commonly mentioned as possessing those skills, Erick Aybar types, so again its easy why some might not be excited. This kid's stat cast data shows that sort of elite contact skills, particular .vs FBs in a time where MLB has become very fixated on pitch velocity.  

Schanuel is an interesting oddity.  They went high floor, they went safe, but hes got elite skills in very distinct areas that are a big part of succeeding in today's game.  Boring but fine for the 11th pick, and potentially a position of great need in the very near future.

[Angelsfan1984]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

My opinion of prospect rankings is pretty well known, but the reason you don't see as many 1B making top 100s as you used to is entirely due to defensive limitations.  For a 1B to truly stand out offensively, enough to heads to get hyped they need to be pushing 70/80 grades with the bat because offense is expected.  It's a built in bias not unlike the one baked into the various WAR models.  

People are trying too hard to "defend" this pick.  It's fine to question if they wouldn't have been better off trying to get more upside at a more premium position, that's the way the game is played now.  But the pick is fine, the plate discipline makes this as good a bet as you can possibly find in the draft. This kid may be an extreme example of a MLB ready bat, even if the power lags behind that of a typical 1Bman. The pick makes sense, the pick is also boring because its hard to envision superstardom, but people really shouldn't be expecting that from the 11th pick. 

Now, if anyone needs an example of why some may find the puck underwhelming we need look no further than Matt Thaiss. Many viewed him as the most advanced college bat in the draft when he was chosen, his strength was also his well balanced hit tool and plus plate discipline -- moving him to 1B was supposed to possibly get more out of him offensively...  Everyone knows how that's played out.

If I were to try to make a case for why this pick isn't as bad as some think I'd point to the fact that teams have a shit ton more data than they used to and are much more reliant on those data points than they previously were. There are stat-cast machines in every college stadium now.  There is a shit ton more info on how guys fare vs pitch types and contact rate data.  The on base skills with this kid are extremely elite, and its not a power fueled type situation where pitchers tried to pitch around him, he's just a bit of an oddity in the sense that he's a 1B with stupid good bat to ball skills and a ridiculous eye.

When people hear elite bat to ball rates and contact skills they typically think about the hitter types most commonly mentioned as possessing those skills, Erick Aybar types, so again its easy why some might not be excited. This kid's stat cast data shows that sort of elite contact skills, particular .vs FBs in a time where MLB has become very fixated on pitch velocity.  

Schanuel is an interesting oddity.  They went high floor, they went safe, but hes got elite skills in very distinct areas that are a big part of succeeding in today's game.  Boring but fine for the 11th pick, and potentially a position great need in the very near future.

Impossibly well said.
 

It’s not that people think he’s going to be bad, it’s that his trajectory is quick to the majors. Ok…then what. What do they do with rendon in 2 years. How do you squeeze the drury, Thaiss, urshela types into the lineup? Does he hit lefties like he hits righties? Will he be platooned in todays game. I want nothing more than this kid to develop into a freeman or Matt Olsen type, but only time will tell. I’m definitely rooting for him to come out guns blazing. 

[Angels in 2030]

15 hours ago, Stradling said:

Dude, calm down. 

Ummm, what?!?!?  I think you might have quoted the wrong person.  The other guy literally told me to "fuck off" --  and yet it's me that you are quoting and saying to calm down.  lol ok bro, ok. 

[Angels in 2030]

11 hours ago, Blarg said:

First player I thought of. 

How about Matt Olsen for the A's in 2012?

Christian Yellich was actually drafted as a 1st baseman back in 2010.

CJ Cron was drafted as a 1st baseman in 2011. 

Hosmer, Yonder Alonzo and Justin Smoak all in 2008 in fact there were 7 players that year drafted as 1st basemen.

I know this is before your formative years but in 2002 Fielder, Swisher and Loney all drafted as 1st baseman. 

There were 2 drafted in 2019, 4 in 2017, 2 in 2015, 2 in 2012, 7 in 2008, and 3 in 2007. 

In the last 20 drafts there has only been 3 years a 1st baseman wasn't drafted in the 1st round, 2004, 2006 and 2021.

 

So, I guess that is all I really need to know about you as well. All insults and nothing of substance. 

ok, so a handful of guys over the course of the past 20 years (600+ picks).  If anything, i think you just proved my point that 1B are not valued by teams so early in the draft.  This guy in particular was not rated that high and thus the expectation he'd go under slot.  No need to get upset with me.  I'm not the only one saying it -- here and throughout the media "experts".  Heck, i hope the guy because the greatest hitting 1B ever and a HOFer.  

 

BTW: i'm supposedly all insults to you (i said his "post was idiotic") and yet him initially telling me to Fck-off beforehand is conveniently ignored.  Kind of weird/odd to go after me with that comment.  My response to him telling me to fck-off seemed pretty tame, but i guess you didn't. interesting.

[Stradling]

42 minutes ago, Skips said:

Ummm, what?!?!?  I think you might have quoted the wrong person.  The other guy literally told me to "fuck off" --  and yet it's me that you are quoting and saying to calm down.  lol ok bro, ok. 

After calling him Gramps.  So yes, calm down.  

[Angels in 2030]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

After calling him Gramps.  So yes, calm down.  

come on, that was funny.  He was referencing things from 34-45+ years ago.  That's hardly name calling...and "calm down"?!?!.....did you hit your head or are you having a stroke?  Maybe you're the cranky old grandpa.  Take that stick out.  Life is short, try to enjoy it and have some fun.   

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Skips said:

come on, that was funny.  He was referencing things from 34-45+ years ago.  That's hardly name calling...and "calm down"?!?!.....did you hit your head or are you having a stroke?  Maybe you're the cranky old grandpa.  Take that stick out.  Life is short, try to enjoy it and have some fun.   

I am having fun, kid.  

[Hubs]

14 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think the point he's making is that MLB views 1B differently than they used to.  DH too.  The onus has shifted to finding power/offense at premium defensive positions, so draft strategies have also shifted.

Frank Thomas was an absolute beast coming out of college, possibly the surest bet ever.

My point was here are the 1B drafted in the first round. Some of these guys are legit. Some are not. I don't think it's a higher percentage of failure, and I am too young to remember Thomas out of college in 1989.

[Angels in 2030]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I am having fun, kid.  

Good -- that's the whole point of things.  I'm glad we're on the same page.  BTW, thanks for the "kid" comment -- i'm actually an adult with my own kids, so being called a "kid" again is quite nice and refreshing.