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Yadier Molina HOF?


happybat4

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Yadier Molina was a great player, but people are talking about him like he is an all time great. I know the catcher position is hard to quantify, but his BWAR is only 42.2. There's lots of catchers with similar WAR (in many cases higher) that didn't even get past the first ballot of the HOF. What am I missing?

Jason Kendall (41.7)

Jorge Posada (42.7)

Lance Parrish (39.6)

Thurman Munson (46.1)

Russell Martin (38.9)

Gene Tenace (46.8)

Bill Freehan (44.8)

Darrell Porter (40.9)

Jim Sundberg (40.5)

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He's arguably the greatest defensive catcher in the history of the game, or at least top two or three. Held his own with the bat. Average hitter + greatest all-time defensive catcher over 2226 games = Hall of Famer.

Meaning, if he doesn't belong in the Hall, neither does Ozzie Smith. Yadier Molina = the catcher version of Ozzie Smith.

Oh, Ozzie Smith is a Hall of Famer.

Edited by Angelsjunky
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7 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

He's arguably the greatest defensive catcher in the history of the game, or at least top two or three. Held his own with the bat. Average hitter + greatest all-time defensive catcher over 2226 games = Hall of Famer.

Meaning, if he doesn't belong in the Hall, neither does Ozzie Smith. Yadier Molina = the catcher version of Ozzie Smith.

Oh, Ozzie Smith is a Hall of Famer.

Ozzie Smith has 30+ WAR over Molina. 

All star appearances are overrated. Miguel Cabrera was an all star this year.

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2 hours ago, Taylor said:

He should absolutely get in. Ten time All Star who played 19 seasons, well regarded for his defense and ability to work with a pitching staff.

Fun fact: Bengie Molina's full name is Benjamin Jose Molina. Jose Molina's full name is Jose Benjamin Molina. Yadier is Yadier Benjamin Molina.

Mom only had to call, Benjie, it's dinner time and all three would show up. 

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39 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

Ozzie Smith has 30+ WAR over Molina. 

All star appearances are overrated. Miguel Cabrera was an all star this year.

Not according to Fangraphs.

Ozzie Smith: 67.6 WAR in 2573 games.

Yadier Molina: 55.7 WAR in 2226 games.

Also, catchers have shorter careers, so you really should judge them against each other. Molina is 10th all-time in WAR, which makes him around the level where players become borderline. Ahead of him is Bill Dickey, behind him Russell Martin.

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10 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

He's arguably the greatest defensive catcher in the history of the game, or at least top two or three

He's probably the greatest defensive catcher of his generation... but certainly not in the history of the game (IMO).

 

And... YES to the HOF question.

Edited by T.G.
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38 minutes ago, T.G. said:

He's probably the greatest defensive catcher of his generation... but certainly not in the history of the game (IMO).

 

And... YES to the HOF question.

I would say he's DEFINITELY the greatest defensive catcher of his generation, but ARGUABLY in the history of the game.

In my baseball fandom, only Pudge is comparable - at least among regulars with longish careers.

I know the Def component of WAR is questionable, and Fangraphs' catchers got a weird framing boost a few years that I remain uncertain about, but it is worth pointing out that according to their metric, he's got the highest Def of any player in baseball history.

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Interesting stat:

Yadier has thrown out 40% of those attempting to steal a base.

Others:

Roy Campanella: 57%

Ivan Rodriguez: 46%

Thurman Munson: 44%

Elston Howard: 44%

Johnny Bench: 43%

Bob Boone: 40%

Charles Johnson: 39%

Lance Parrish: 39%

Salvador Perez: 36%

Benito Santiago: 35%

Gary Carter: 35%

Carlton Fisk: 34%

Mike Piazza: 23%

 

Just to name a few...

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1 hour ago, T.G. said:

So?

So, every Hall of Fame entry is based upon the player's accomplishments in the years they played, not held to untouchable standards of past players. It is how good they were in comparison to players of their time and Yadier Molina was better than any during this and the previous decade. 

I hope that answered your in depth question. 

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