What could have been.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Most people know I’ve had a hate/hate relationship with the halos since 2003.  
 

Man you watch a game like last night and tonight, and you shake your head at how this year could have been a playoff year.  
 

The pitching with Detmers, Sandoval and Ohtani could have gotten us there.  Syndergaard would still be here (he wasn’t great, but he was good enough), they just had such a 10-week streak of awful ball. 
 

I’m sure most people are anti-Nevin but it even seemed like he settled in. 
 

it’s just a shame.  I don’t typically watch September play, but I’ve been watching this season.  Maybe it’s because of the unknown. 

[BTH]

After years of pitching being the issue, the pitching was excellent and the offense was horrid.

I think part of that is because the Angels over-corrected after all the pitching issues.

But that’s OK, as it’s easier to get good hitters in free agency/trades than good pitchers.

 

To repeat a broken record: Perry needs to do a better job building offensive depth this offseason.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

But that’s OK, as it’s easier to get good hitters in free agency/trades than good pitchers.

Especially at a couple of the positions of need.  It's actually kinda hard to accumulate a super stellar WAR at 1b.  Even if Walsh doesn't get totally back to his 2021 season, How about just a 110 wRC+ and solid defense for about 2 WAR?  That would likely mean hitting about .260 with 20ish hrs.  After getting -1.6 WAR with 16 hrs, 184k and 39 bb and an overall wRC+ of 72 (ops of .618).  

I really don't love many of the 1b options.  But I could see us going after a guy like Aledmys Diaz for the bench.  good defender.  decent bat.  probably not overly expensive.  Can play several defensive positions pretty well so you don't take a huge hit in terms of prevention.  Or Wendle if he declines his mutual option.  

I think Stassi is getting the nod next year no matter what.  Maybe a better backup (couldn't be worse than Kurt) and Ohoppe in the wings.  

The real question mark for me is what they'll do in LF.  

[TroutField]

Typical year we have experienced since 2010, everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. 
they show flashes of good play but just don’t have the depth to do it over long periods of play. That, coupled with the best players not ever staying on the field for a full season, well you know the rest. 

[HaloBronco]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of Bob Starr said:

Most people know I’ve had a hate/hate relationship with the halos since 2003.  
 

Man you watch a game like last night and tonight, and you shake your head at how this year could have been a playoff year.  
 

The pitching with Detmers, Sandoval and Ohtani could have gotten us there.  Syndergaard would still be here (he wasn’t great, but he was good enough), they just had such a 10-week streak of awful ball. 
 

I’m sure most people are anti-Nevin but it even seemed like he settled in. 
 

it’s just a shame.  I don’t typically watch September play, but I’ve been watching this season.  Maybe it’s because of the unknown. 

Great points made I agree on all of them.

I'm hoping they bring Nevin back, he's done a good job. 

[beatlesrule]

 

[Warfarin]

6 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Especially at a couple of the positions of need.  It's actually kinda hard to accumulate a super stellar WAR at 1b.  Even if Walsh doesn't get totally back to his 2021 season, How about just a 110 wRC+ and solid defense for about 2 WAR?  That would likely mean hitting about .260 with 20ish hrs.  After getting -1.6 WAR with 16 hrs, 184k and 39 bb and an overall wRC+ of 72 (ops of .618).  

I really don't love many of the 1b options.  But I could see us going after a guy like Aledmys Diaz for the bench.  good defender.  decent bat.  probably not overly expensive.  Can play several defensive positions pretty well so you don't take a huge hit in terms of prevention.  Or Wendle if he declines his mutual option.  

I think Stassi is getting the nod next year no matter what.  Maybe a better backup (couldn't be worse than Kurt) and Ohoppe in the wings.  

The real question mark for me is what they'll do in LF.  

Ideally, I think they address LF in free agency, and even if they don't necessarily sign a 1B, I'd like someone brought in who could compete with Walsh, or more importantly, provide a solid safety net in case he isn't healthy.  Thaiss is okay, but he hasn't really proven himself at this point, and the best teams tend to have multiple layers of depth in place.

Rengifo's emergence actually provides us with a solid backup plan for Rendon at 3B.  Next year, we could always have Fletcher at SS, Rengifo at 2B, and Rendon at 3B, with perhaps Soto (?) backing up the middle infield.  If/when Rendon is hurt, Rengifo can swing out to 3B, Fletcher at 2B, and Soto starts at SS.

At the minimum though, this team needs at least three hitters - LF, a capable backup at 1B that can start and at least be league average, should Walsh not be ready, and a backup C.  Thaiss could, in theory, help out with the latter two, but again, I'd rather him prove himself and look great prior to counting on him as a solution.

[Jason]

The Season was over after that long losing streak. That streak sucked 

[BTH]

8 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I really don't love many of the 1b options.  But I could see us going after a guy like Aledmys Diaz for the bench.

The real question mark for me is what they'll do in LF.  

I was thinking about this last night, and I think the most probable outcome is that the Angels sign a starting LF and a right-handed bench bat who can play 1B and either 2B or 3B.

That won’t cost a ton of money, and it’d leave them with:

C- Stassi/Thaiss/O’Hoppe

1B- Walsh/Free Agent RH Bench Bat

2B- Rengifo

3B- Rendon

SS- Fletcher

LF- Free Agent LF

CF- Trout

RF- Ward

DH- Ohtani

B1- Stassi/Thaiss/O’Hoppe

B2- Velazquez/Soto

B3- Moniak/Adell

B4- Bench Bat

[BTH]

8 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I really don't love many of the 1b options.  But I could see us going after a guy like Aledmys Diaz for the bench.  good defender.  decent bat.  probably not overly expensive. 

The real question mark for me is what they'll do in LF.  

Looking at free agency…

Bench Options: Brandon Drury, Aledmys Díaz, Jonathan Schoop (if he opts out), Donovan Solano, Chad Pinder

LF Options: Andrew Benintendi, Michael Brantley, Joc Pederson, David Peralta, Mitch Haniger, and Joey Gallo.

[Dtwncbad]

Given that I am not very excited about Walsh being part of the plan going forward. . . I wouldn’t complete dismiss the idea of Rendon just being the full time 1B.  Yes he is a great defensive 3B when healthy, but maybe the Angels should just do whatever is necessary to minimize his injury risk.  And Rengifo looks like he can handle the job at 3rd.

Still need a SS that can hit though.

[Angel Oracle]

Remember that Adell is still only 23, and has improved a lot defensively.

This off-season should be a return to a normal approach for him, and not doing defense drills all the time.  He shows glimpses of breaking through offensively.

If Rengifo, Trout, Ohtani, Ward, Rendon, and Walsh can all stay healthy enough, that’s far less pressure on Adell at the plate.

I would focus on a LHH 4th OF who can play all 3 spots.  Was hoping Moniak could be that guy, but the injuries have delayed his showing what he can do.

[Warfarin]

4 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Remember that Adell is still only 23, and has improved a lot defensively.

This off-season should be a return to a normal approach for him, and not doing defense drills all the time.  He shows glimpses of breaking through offensively.

If Rengifo, Trout, Ohtani, Ward, Rendon, and Walsh can all stay healthy enough, that’s far less pressure on Adell at the plate.

I would focus on a LHH 4th OF who can play all 3 spots.  Was hoping Moniak could be that guy, but the injuries have delayed his showing what he can do.

Adell's plate discipline is so poor overall that I would be very reluctant to hand him a starting job, if our goal is to contend next year.

I am all for the idea of signing Joc Pederson or Joey Gallo to be the primary LF.  Adell can form the weak side of the platoon, and if things so happen to "click," he can start to ramp up his playing time.

[Warfarin]

28 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I was thinking about this last night, and I think the most probable outcome is that the Angels sign a starting LF and a right-handed bench bat who can play 1B and either 2B or 3B.

That won’t cost a ton of money, and it’d leave them with:

C- Stassi/Thaiss/O’Hoppe

1B- Walsh/Free Agent RH Bench Bat

2B- Rengifo

3B- Rendon

SS- Fletcher

LF- Free Agent LF

CF- Trout

RF- Ward

DH- Ohtani

B1- Stassi/Thaiss/O’Hoppe

B2- Velazquez/Soto

B3- Moniak/Adell

B4- Bench Bat

Yeah, I think that's the neat part of how to "fix" this team.  It likely doesn't require too much financially to do so.  We already have star power.  We will (likely) have 3 hitters who finish with a 4+ fWAR this year, and a potential 4th hitter who could do so next year with good health (Rendon).

In addition to a LHH LF and a bench option at 3B/1B that can also start, I think we will rather likely sign a backup C.  While Thaiss could potentially serve that role, I doubt they will be ready to hand that job over to him at this time.  It is easy to find random veteran backup catchers, so this too should be a cheap spot to fill.

[BTH]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

In addition to a LHH LF and a bench option at 3B/1B that can also start, I think we will rather likely sign a backup C.  While Thaiss could potentially serve that role, I doubt they will be ready to hand that job over to him at this time.  It is easy to find random veteran backup catchers, so this too should be a cheap spot to fill.

I’m torn about that. I could see them adding a backup C or not adding a backup C.

I’m not sure the front office will have the budget to add a steady backup C, so they may end up bringing in a veteran on a minor league deal to compete with Thaiss.

If they have the money, it’d be a smart place to upgrade.

[BTH]

17 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Remember that Adell is still only 23, and has improved a lot defensively.

This off-season should be a return to a normal approach for him, and not doing defense drills all the time.  He shows glimpses of breaking through offensively.

If Rengifo, Trout, Ohtani, Ward, Rendon, and Walsh can all stay healthy enough, that’s far less pressure on Adell at the plate.

I would focus on a LHH 4th OF who can play all 3 spots.  Was hoping Moniak could be that guy, but the injuries have delayed his showing what he can do.

 

11 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Adell's plate discipline is so poor overall that I would be very reluctant to hand him a starting job, if our goal is to contend next year.

I am all for the idea of signing Joc Pederson or Joey Gallo to be the primary LF.  Adell can form the weak side of the platoon, and if things so happen to "click," he can start to ramp up his playing time.

I really hope the Angels hire a new hitting coach because I think Adell (among others) needs to hear a different voice.

Reed has been his minor league hitting coordinator or his major league hitting coach for the majority of Adell’s professional career.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, Trendon said:

 

I really hope the Angels hire a new hitting coach because I think Adell (among others) needs to hear a different voice.

Reed has been his minor league hitting coordinator or his major league hitting coach for the majority of Adell’s professional career.

Season Monthly BB% K% BB/K AVG OBP SLG OPS ISO BABIP wRC wRAA wOBA wRC+ 2022 Mar/Apr 1.7% 36.2% 0.05 .246 .259 .456 .715 .211 .333 6 -0.2 .306 97 2022 May 0.0% 37.5% 0.00 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 -1 -2.0 .000 -100 2022 Jun 9.5% 28.6% 0.33 .368 .429 .474 .902 .105 .538 4 1.4 .396 161 2022 Jul 8.9% 33.3% 0.27 .179 .289 .205 .494 .026 .292 3 -2.5 .239 50 2022 Aug 3.6% 39.8% 0.09 .221 .256 .403 .659 .182 .333 8 -1.8 .283 81 2022 Sept/Oct 2.0% 43.1% 0.05 .220 .235 .380 .615 .160 .346 4 -1.8 .265 69 2022 1st Half 2.9% 34.6% 0.08 .240 .269 .380 .649 .140 .344 10 -2.2 .283 81 2022 2nd Half 4.9% 39.5% 0.13 .213 .261 .367 .628 .153 .329 14 -4.6 .274 75

The above is Adell's breakdown by month.  Statistically, he just does not seem like a MLB caliber player at this current time.  A lot can happen in an offseason, and he is young and supremely athletic, so you can't rule anything out, but he really needs to make a lot of improvement, both offensively and defensively.

Again, for this reason, I would be very hesitant to guarantee him any kind of role without significant improvements.

[BTH]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Again, for this reason, I would be very hesitant to guarantee him any kind of role without significant improvements.

Yeah, I wouldn’t guarantee him any kind of role right now either.

I’m not sure he has much, if any, value at this point so I’d put him in AAA next season and hope that Spring Training work led by a new hitting coach + in-season work could help him amount to something.

[Warfarin]

Just now, Trendon said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t guarantee him any kind of role right now either.

I’m not sure he has much, if any, value at this point so I’d put him in AAA next season and hope that Spring Training work led by a new hitting coach + in-season work could help him amount to something.

Agreed.  It has always seemed a bit odd to me when I see others say "he has nothing left to learn at AAA."  There are so many players who look underwhelming for years, toil around in the minors, then suddenly have things "click" and become good MLB players.  Adell is only 23, so I think there is considerable value in having him just stay in AAA and work on his pitch recognition, contact, etc.  He is considerably below replacement value right now, so there is a lot of value, IMO, in having him stay in AAA for further development.  

[BTH]

24 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Agreed.  It has always seemed a bit odd to me when I see others say "he has nothing left to learn at AAA."  There are so many players who look underwhelming for years, toil around in the minors, then suddenly have things "click" and become good MLB players.  Adell is only 23, so I think there is considerable value in having him just stay in AAA and work on his pitch recognition, contact, etc.  He is considerably below replacement value right now, so there is a lot of value, IMO, in having him stay in AAA for further development.  

Next season will be his last season with options, so 2023 is probably gonna be the most important year of his career.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Adell's plate discipline is so poor overall that I would be very reluctant to hand him a starting job, if our goal is to contend next year.

I am all for the idea of signing Joc Pederson or Joey Gallo to be the primary LF.  Adell can form the weak side of the platoon, and if things so happen to "click," he can start to ramp up his playing time.

There’s a 3rd FA LHH OF who would command similar salary to the other two:  Andrew Benetendi.

Doesn’t have the power of the other two, but career OPS vs RHP is .808.   Solid OBP guy, 174/124 Ks/BBs the past two years

If they decide to have Adell start 2023 at SLC to work on the offense, Benetendi may be the best option of the three guys mentioned (Gallo and Pederson).  OPS against LHP the past two years is around .730.

With good health, they already have plenty of power with Rengifo, Trout, Ohtani, Ward, Rendon, and Walsh.

An OBP guy who can hit against righties and lefties is the important need now. 

Order of preference:

Benetendi, Pederson, Gallo

Gallo strikes out way more often than the other two, and there are already enough batters with high Ks counts on this team.

With the shifts ban, OBP and making contact become more important than in the past several years.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

With the shifts ban, OBP and making contact become more important than in the past several years.

With the shift ban I'd actually say that making contact is less important. What is more important is making solid contact. The shift ban is going to kill guys like David Fletcher, not because it's going to take hits away from him, but because he's not going to gain any hits that these pull / power guys are going to get.

[Torridd]

12 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Especially at a couple of the positions of need.  It's actually kinda hard to accumulate a super stellar WAR at 1b.  Even if Walsh doesn't get totally back to his 2021 season, How about just a 110 wRC+ and solid defense for about 2 WAR?  That would likely mean hitting about .260 with 20ish hrs.  After getting -1.6 WAR with 16 hrs, 184k and 39 bb and an overall wRC+ of 72 (ops of .618).  

I really don't love many of the 1b options.  But I could see us going after a guy like Aledmys Diaz for the bench.  good defender.  decent bat.  probably not overly expensive.  Can play several defensive positions pretty well so you don't take a huge hit in terms of prevention.  Or Wendle if he declines his mutual option.  

I think Stassi is getting the nod next year no matter what.  Maybe a better backup (couldn't be worse than Kurt) and Ohoppe in the wings.  

The real question mark for me is what they'll do in LF.  

I really think the outfield isn't a big issue. Let Moniak/Adell fight it out. We need to concentrate more on SS and pitching. I like what Rengifo has done but I don't think he's necessarily ready for prime time. Thoughts? 

[halodground]

22 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I really think the outfield isn't a big issue. Let Moniak/Adell fight it out. We need to concentrate more on SS and pitching. I like what Rengifo has done but I don't think he's necessarily ready for prime time. Thoughts? 

I agree. Unless they have decided that Adell is a bust and can’t adjust, I would give him another full season to work it out. Moniak seems like a solid 4th outfielder in the making. I’m firmly in the “no big free agent contracts” camp with one exception. I’d throw a buttload of money at Trea Turner if they can get him on a 6 year or less contract. He’d solidify SS and allow Rengifo to settle in at 2nd with Fletcher being the utility guy. Also protects us when the inevitable Rendon injury happens. We’d still be pinning a lot of the success on Trout staying healthy for a full season, but I think we’re due for a lucky break there. I’m hopeful on the pitching and wouldn’t spend big in that area. 

[Blarg]

38 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I like what Rengifo has done but I don't think he's necessarily ready for prime time. Thoughts? 

He is playing in prime time. It's not as though he has been platooned for pitching match ups the last two months. He has played in almost the same amount of games as Erick Aybar at the same age and has put up an near identical OPS+. The Angels would have to find a much greater upside free agent to move Rengifo off a starting role and its possible he would still push Fletcher to the bench as a super sub.