How is this team worse than last year?

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, halonatic13 said:

You seem like a blast at parties.

he's a maybe

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Or when your team is 16.5 games out of 1st in early July.

I'm sad now. 

[DMVol]

49 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

We have to stop blaming injuries. Your second factor is more important - well-run orgs have the depth to build better bullpens and plug holes (gross).

As for your third point, I think the disappointing performances of our homegrown talent is understated. In fact, look at our 2021 Angelswin top 4 prospects:

1. Jo Adell: Stuck in AAA, and just holding his own, with the same problems he's had for the last few years.
2. Brandon Marsh: Can't hit.
3. Chris Rodriguez: Injured again, possibly out for the whole year.
4. Reid Detmers: Throwing batting practice for the most part, back in AAA.

This year's #2 prospect, Sam Bachman, is hurt and has pitched all of 8 innings.

And it isn't like the above four are just a matter of us being overly fannish, at least with Adell and Marsh. Fangraphs had Adell in their top 5, and I think Marsh in the top 10. Detmers was a 50 FV prospect.

I know, I know, they're all young. Still, it is disappointing that none of them have performed as hoped. Even just one would soften the blow a bit.

Not using the injuries as an excuse but more as part of the answer to your question of "Why are we worse than last year".....sometimes you are lucky with injuries and that can maybe cover a lack of depth (see Giants last year, who stayed relatively healthy)....but, obviously we weren't deep enough to handle losing Rendon and Fletcher....so injuries do matter but a team has to be built, to some extent, to absorb them, see the Mets this year for example....

[mmc]

5 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Or when your team is 16.5 games out of 1st in early July.

17*

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, mmc said:

17*

[Tank]

29 minutes ago, failos said:

Maybe @Tank can suggest it.

My first choice was the home run beret. 
 

I also advocated for the home run cardigan, peace pipe, Hawaiian grass skirt, and/or a ride in a wheelchair.

[Duren, Duren]

Lots of good observations on the big picture and the organizational problems. 

Pitching has been average at best, not good enough to get on long winning streaks. Rarely do the starters and bullpen combine for a strong game. And even when they do like yesterday, the hitters failed. 

Defense and base running are below average and at times pathetic. That seems to reflect lack of confidence, poor communication and preparation. There is some quality defensive skill in certain players, but there is lack of concentration at times and poor teamwork. 

On a game by game basis, there is too much dependence on Trout and Ohtani, hoping they could compensate for a mostly minor league batting order around them. Four spots for sure. Two others respectable.

Ward is  a positive story on a limited basis, and to be determined longer term. And Walsh maybe just reverting to his normal 'ok' form rather than all star consistency. Not as clutch as last year with runners in scoring position. And again reverting to difficulty against lefties.

But the mix of the others is bad, no matter how they mix and match.

Rendon did make a difference overall when he actually was playing.  But that has been infrequently. And he  still was nowhere near what was expected when signed. 

Even with those five in the lineup that still leaves four minor league hitters following them. Five now that Rendon will be out all year.

Yesterday in the ninth typifies things. They walked Trout and Ohtani. Miami felt more comfortable with the bases loaded than giving the two stars a chance. Ward at least produced a run, but didn't have the key hit. A moment later the game is over and another loss. 

Another factor with this wretched losing spell is that Trout and Ohtani (as a hitter) are not having MVP type seasons. All star probably, but below their best. If one of them doesn't have an awesome game, winning is seriously problematic.

If they had elite (or even above average) pitching/defense they possibly could finesse enough wins to be around  .500 on the fringe of contention. But they don't and the results speak for themselves. 

[Docwaukee]

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2022&month=1000&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&rost=&age=&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-05-25&enddate=2022-07-06

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.  

They had to have projected something.  Right?  I doubt they just eyeballed it.  Was the projection that no one would get injured and everyone would perform better than they ever have.  And that all of the young players would take a step forward?  Was it that Trout and Ohtani would have prorated 8 WAR offense in every game?   

How do you fault Juan Lagares, Andrew Velazquez, Jack Mayfield, Tyler Wade, Monte Harrison, David MacKinnon, Brandon Marsh, Michael Stefanic, Kurt Suzuki, Dillon Thomas, and Matt Duffy for this?  All of those guys are either rookies trying to fumble their way through or guys that just aren't very good.   

How do you set the team up to where these guys and a few other occupy half of your plate appearances?  There has been one relevant injury in Rendon.  Did they think at the beginning of the year that the offense would fall apart if Taylor Ward got injured?  

How do you shoot the devil the the back?  What if you miss?

 

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2022&month=1000&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&rost=&age=&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-05-25&enddate=2022-07-06

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.  

They had to have projected something.  Right?  I doubt they just eyeballed it.  Was the projection that no one would get injured and everyone would perform better than they ever have.  And that all of the young players would take a step forward?  Was it that Trout and Ohtani would have prorated 8 WAR offense in every game?   

How do you fault Juan Lagares, Andrew Velazquez, Jack Mayfield, Tyler Wade, Monte Harrison, David MacKinnon, Brandon Marsh, Michael Stefanic, Kurt Suzuki, Dillon Thomas, and Matt Duffy for this?  All of those guys are either rookies trying to fumble their way through or guys that just aren't very good.   

How do you set the team up to where these guys and a few other occupy half of your plate appearances?  There has been one relevant injury in Rendon.  Did they think at the beginning of the year that the offense would fall apart if Taylor Ward got injured?  

How do you shoot the devil the the back?  What if you miss?

One cannot be betrayed if one has no people.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

They aren't playing like it's 1985

The Angels didn't make the playoffs in 1985. So...

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

One cannot be betrayed if one has no people.

Yeah, I was about to tell you to shut up.

[TroutField]

5 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2022&month=1000&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&rost=&age=&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-05-25&enddate=2022-07-06

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.  

They had to have projected something.  Right?  I doubt they just eyeballed it.  Was the projection that no one would get injured and everyone would perform better than they ever have.  And that all of the young players would take a step forward?  Was it that Trout and Ohtani would have prorated 8 WAR offense in every game?   

How do you fault Juan Lagares, Andrew Velazquez, Jack Mayfield, Tyler Wade, Monte Harrison, David MacKinnon, Brandon Marsh, Michael Stefanic, Kurt Suzuki, Dillon Thomas, and Matt Duffy for this?  All of those guys are either rookies trying to fumble their way through or guys that just aren't very good.   

How do you set the team up to where these guys and a few other occupy half of your plate appearances?  There has been one relevant injury in Rendon.  Did they think at the beginning of the year that the offense would fall apart if Taylor Ward got injured?  

How do you shoot the devil the the back?  What if you miss?

 

Pretty much spot on… 

 

I was super skeptical of this team in spring training and was dumbfounded at the bullpen pieces they decided to spend on. Aside from that we were relying way too much on things breaking our way (which they never do) over the course of 162 games… 

 

They were hot for 40 games and every one bought into it, it happens every year and then reality sets in. 
 

It’ll take a full rebuild at this point, they still haven’t learned that piecing together a rotation with some guys coming off an injury and hoping for them to pitch like they did 7-8 years ago isn’t going to work out. Or that hoping for replacement level production around Trout and Ohtani to carry you to the playoffs isn’t a recipe for success. 
 

I’m mentally preparing myself for Trout and Ohtani opting to leave. No way they can ignore this dysfunction much longer 

[Lou]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

Yeah, I was about to tell you to shut up.

@Docwaukee!

We have another one.

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Yeah, I was about to tell you to shut up.

From now on, you're in the getting-fucked-by-us business.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, TroutField said:

Pretty much spot on… 

 

I was super skeptical of this team in spring training and was dumbfounded at the bullpen pieces they decided to spend on. Aside from that we were relying way too much on things breaking our way (which they never do) over the course of 162 games… 

 

They were hot for 40 games and every one bought into it, it happens every year and then reality sets in. 
 

It’ll take a full rebuild at this point, they still haven’t learned that piecing together a rotation with some guys coming off an injury and hoping for them to pitch like they did 7-8 years ago isn’t going to work out. Or that hoping for replacement level production around Trout and Ohtani to carry you to the playoffs isn’t a recipe for success. 
 

I’m mentally preparing myself for Trout and Ohtani opting to leave. No way they can ignore this dysfunction much longer 

How we’re you dumbfounded on the bullpen pieces they added?  They basically gave the best free agent closer a 4 year deal.  They gave the best left handed reliever (Coming off two great years)  a two year deal and a guy who’s had a few really good years a two year deal.  Who else would you have given contracts to based on their previous performance?  

[Stradling]

The problem is this team was built to score a lot of runs, while having a good to great bullpen, and enough starting pitching to get them to that bullpen.  Then the offense didn’t score, Loup, Tepera and Iglesias had shitty months of May, and the offense still isn’t scoring. 

[tdawg87]

9 minutes ago, Lou said:

From now on, you're in the getting-fucked-by-us business.

Man, I had a finger up my asshole tonight.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

How we’re you dumbfounded on the bullpen pieces they added?  They basically gave the best free agent closer a 4 year deal.  They gave the best left handed reliever (Coming off two great years)  a two year deal and a guy who’s had a few really good years a two year deal.  Who else would you have given contracts to based on their previous performance?  

I wasn't dumbfounded but if you're gonna do that, it has to work.  You have to see something that others might not.  There has to be a really good reason why you buck what has become normal in terms of evaluating bullpens and why what you did should work when it really hasn't in the past.  

 

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The problem is this team was built to score a lot of runs, while having a good to great bullpen, and enough starting pitching to get them to that bullpen.  Then the offense didn’t score, Loup, Tepera and Iglesias had shitty months of May, and the offense still isn’t scoring. 

No.  It really wasn't.  It was built to rely heavily on a couple key guys and then to cross fingers on the rest.  If that's how they thought they were going to score a lot of runs then it was a terrible plan from the beginning.  

And the pen needed help.  I get it.  But if you're gonna make that type of investment you should know something others don't.  They didn't.  They maybe thought they did.  

So they either thought they were smarter than everyone else or they just went for it and hoped for the best.  

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Man, I had a finger up my asshole tonight.

is it Friday already?

[Lou]

On 6/25/2022 at 11:17 PM, Lou said:

Is it Friday already?

 

[Docwaukee]

19 minutes ago, Lou said:

@Docwaukee!

We have another one.

every thread should have a ref.  It should be an AW requirement on a go forward.  

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

every thread should have a ref.  It should be an AW requirement on a go forward.  

I know some people who can make that happen.

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I wasn't dumbfounded but if you're gonna do that, it has to work.  You have to see something that others might not.  There has to be a really good reason why you buck what has become normal in terms of evaluating bullpens and why what you did should work when it really hasn't in the past.  

 

No.  It really wasn't.  It was built to rely heavily on a couple key guys and then to cross fingers on the rest.  If that's how they thought they were going to score a lot of runs then it was a terrible plan from the beginning.  

And the pen needed help.  I get it.  But if you're gonna make that type of investment you should know something others don't.  They didn't.  They maybe thought they did.  

So they either thought they were smarter than everyone else or they just went for it and hoped for the best.  

The offense was built on having six above average hitters in Ward, Rendon, Trout, Ohtani, Walsh and Stassi.  Five of those guys were better than average in 2021 and the other is Rendon. Sure two are stars but the rest are solid offensive producers. 

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

The offense was built on having six above average hitters in Ward, Rendon, Trout, Ohtani, Walsh and Stassi.  Five of those guys were better than average in 2021 and the other is Rendon. Sure two are stars but the rest are solid offensive producers. 

I'm not sure they expected Ward to do what he's done, though.

Which makes the offensive woes all the more ridiculous.

[TroutField]

27 minutes ago, Stradling said:

How we’re you dumbfounded on the bullpen pieces they added?  They basically gave the best free agent closer a 4 year deal.  They gave the best left handed reliever (Coming off two great years)  a two year deal and a guy who’s had a few really good years a two year deal.  Who else would you have given contracts to based on their previous performance?  

I thought choosing this as the off-season to spend on the bullpen was an odd decision. I didn’t like what was available and didn’t have a lot of faith in Tepera, Bradley, and Loup. 
It screamed of desperation to stay competitive. Kind of what the Angels have been doing since the Gary Mathews Jr, Vernon Wells, Albert Pujols, etc. fiascos. It’s kind of been the trademark of Arte Moreno’s ownership of the Angels.