Taylor WARd

[Docwaukee]

54 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I can't take credit for the nickname; I saw someone call him that on Reddit.

But I'm officially a believer. @Second Base you were right. I'm sorry I doubted you.

@Inside Pitch @Angelsjunky @Dochalo Could one of you smart dudes explain what's going on with Ward from a technical standpoint? At this point, it can't be a total fluke, right?

Just cuz I write a lot of stuff doesn't make me smart but I'm certainly not afraid to offer my opinion if that helps.  

To me it goes beyond just garden variety plate discipline.  His pitch recognition is otherworldly right now.  He spits on pitches about half a ball outside the zone with consistency.  And the one thing that I'd have to check the numbers on but just from the eye test, his plate coverage is ridiculous.  He can turn on something inside.  He'll whack a double to the opposite field.  Early on, I was always a bit concerned that his swing was a bit long but there are very few holes right now.   I would watch him in AAA where he hit .330 with a .435 obp and think that it had to be a decent chunk of smoke and mirrors and that it couldn't possibly translate even though I was a big believer that he'd be a solid major leaguer.  But you watch him and he's just in complete control of almost every at bat.  Every pitch.  It's very very impressive.  

[HeavenlyHalos]

12 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Trainwreck was a great movie though. 

Disagreed

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Just cuz I write a lot of stuff doesn't make me smart but I'm certainly not afraid to offer my opinion if that helps.  

To me it goes beyond just garden variety plate discipline.  His pitch recognition is otherworldly right now.  He spits on pitches about half a ball outside the zone with consistency.  And the one thing that I'd have to check the numbers on but just from the eye test, his plate coverage is ridiculous.  He can turn on something inside.  He'll whack a double to the opposite field.  Early on, I was always a bit concerned that his swing was a bit long but there are very few holes right now.   I would watch him in AAA where he hit .330 with a .435 obp and think that it had to be a decent chunk of smoke and mirrors and that it couldn't possibly translate even though I was a big believer that he'd be a solid major leaguer.  But you watch him and he's just in complete control of almost every at bat.  Every pitch.  It's very very impressive.  

So we're safe to start bragging to our friends at work?

[HeavenlyHalos]

11 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Just cuz I write a lot of stuff doesn't make me smart but I'm certainly not afraid to offer my opinion if that helps.  

To me it goes beyond just garden variety plate discipline.  His pitch recognition is otherworldly right now.  He spits on pitches about half a ball outside the zone with consistency.  And the one thing that I'd have to check the numbers on but just from the eye test, his plate coverage is ridiculous.  He can turn on something inside.  He'll whack a double to the opposite field.  Early on, I was always a bit concerned that his swing was a bit long but there are very few holes right now.   I would watch him in AAA where he hit .330 with a .435 obp and think that it had to be a decent chunk of smoke and mirrors and that it couldn't possibly translate even though I was a big believer that he'd be a solid major leaguer.  But you watch him and he's just in complete control of almost every at bat.  Every pitch.  It's very very impressive.  

and to think of how much this site lambasted our draft room for their reaction to drafting him 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

I can't take credit for the nickname; I saw someone call him that on Reddit.

But I'm officially a believer. @Second Base you were right. I'm sorry I doubted you.

@Inside Pitch @Angelsjunky @Dochalo Could one of you smart dudes explain what's going on with Ward from a technical standpoint? At this point, it can't be a total fluke, right?

He is still 4 PA short of qualifying for the stat leader board..

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

and to think of how much this site lambasted our draft room for their reaction to drafting him 

Well, they (Dipoto) drafted him as a catcher. He completely failed in that regard and there is absolutely zero chance Dipoto and his team thought Ward would ever hit like this in a million years.

It was warranted.

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Well, they (Dipoto) drafted him as a catcher. He completely failed in that regard and there is absolutely zero chance Dipoto and his team thought Ward would ever hit like this in a million years.

It was warranted.

This.

Not in a million years do I think Dipoto and company saw him doing this.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

I can't take credit for the nickname; I saw someone call him that on Reddit.

But I'm officially a believer. @Second Base you were right. I'm sorry I doubted you.

@Inside Pitch @Angelsjunky @Dochalo Could one of you smart dudes explain what's going on with Ward from a technical standpoint? At this point, it can't be a total fluke, right?

The only really honest answer is "no fucking idea." His breakout is totally unexpected - although it seems we could give Maddon a little credit. I mean, it was only a month ago that he was declaring Ward the everyday RF and we were all throwing coniption fits. Now it looks like Maddon was a genius.

I think Doc did a good job analyzing his plate approach, and Warfarin mentioned the Fangraphs article that said you can't fake power and discipline. The only other piece I would add is that I don't think you can hit like this for 25 games and it not be legit. Or if we're going on PA, I wonder how many players who have had a 200+ wRC+ for their first 100 PA--or even 200 wRC+ in ANY stretch of 100 PA--that didn't become bonafide stars. Every player with major league talent can have a hot streak, but 100 PA is a bit more than that.

Will he have a 264 wRC+, or even 200, for the whole season? Of course not. But is he a legit elite batter now? I'm starting to believe. Meaning, to answer your last question: I don't think it is a fluke - not at this point. But exactly how good he will be over the course of the year, or next few years, is anyone's guess. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[Taylor]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It was wardanted.

Fixed

[gurn67]

Any "lambasting" was probably due to the him being a catcher thing. It seemed like the Angels drafted a higher than normal amount of catchers in the high rounds during the Scioscia regime.

[ten ocho recon scout]

That said, its funny to see this happening now, while the Mariners looked on the up and up last year, only to have us screw them the final weekend and cockblock their playoffs... then open this year poorly, and watch the Angels streaking...

... and his draft pick killing it... and having nobody know hes the one who drafted him.. lol

[stormngt]

12 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

He is still 4 PA short of qualifying for the stat leader board..

Thanks to Maddon sitting him twice in three days

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

The only other piece I would add is that I don't think you can hit like this for 25 games and it not be legit. 

David Fletcher.

[Angelsjunky]

A bit more. Last year he has a 111 wRC+ and I think an optimistic view is that he improved to about the 120 level, but no one would have been surprised if he stayed around 110 or even 100. 

At this point, given what he's done so far this year, but also moderating it to a reasonable level, I think he's a legit 140 wRC+ hitter - which puts him in the top 15 or so batters in a typical season. He could be more, or he could be less, but that seems to be the most reasonable expectation - which is still a huge improvement over what we could have reasonably expected this year. 

 

[tdawg87]

Just now, gurn67 said:

Any "lambasting" was probably due to the him being a catcher thing. It seemed like the Angels drafted a higher than normal amount of catchers in the high rounds during the Scioscia regime.

It embodied everything that was Jerry Dipoto: He was the "smartest guy in the room". Ward was quite the overreach for a 1st round pick, but JerBear thought he knew something everyone else didn't. Just like he did with Baldoquin.

Ward's current success has nothing to do with Dipoto. It was started when Eppler moved him off the catcher's position so Ward could focus on hitting.

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

David Fletcher.

David Fletcher has never hit like this. He might have had a 25 game stretch where he hit .380, but not a .500 OBP or .700 SLG - not to mention that 264 wRC+.

[HeavenlyHalos]

18 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Well, they (Dipoto) drafted him as a catcher. He completely failed in that regard and there is absolutely zero chance Dipoto and his team thought Ward would ever hit like this in a million years.

It was warranted.

Absolutely, still funny though

[Angelsjunky]

I saw a comp of Josh Donaldson, who was also drafted as a catcher in the 1st round (2007), eventually transitioned to 3B after a few years in the minors. Donaldson didn't get his first taste of the majors until 24 (2010), then become a star at 27 (2013) and one of the best players in the game for about five years.

[HeavenlyHalos]

4 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I saw a comp of Josh Donaldson, who was also drafted as a catcher in the 1st round (2007), eventually transitioned to 3B after a few years in the minors. Donaldson didn't get his first taste of the majors until 24 (2010), then become a star at 27 (2013) and one of the best players in the game for about five years.

It would be amazing if he had that type of career which is certainly possible at this point. I am probably the most surprised at how much power his swing generates as it looks fairly effortless. Coincidentally, I watched this short on Donaldson yesterday that was pretty good.

 

[Second Base]

I know no one asked me, but I'll tell you what I see anyway. 

- He has a simple swing. Less to work on, less can go wrong. 

- He's still, pre-pitch, not many moving parts. While completely facing the pitcher and remaining motionless, he can see the ball clearly. 

- He has a short path to the ball, and he swings through it, rather than to it. This makes his swing look lengthy, but that length is post-contact. Pre-contact, it's very short and direct. As if he's taking BP. 

- He doesn't need to muscle the ball over the fence. He's not strong enough to do that on pace with Trout anyway, and he doesn't have the leverage or long levers of Shohei. What Ward had, which is difficult to teach, is backspin and loft. He places the ball over the wall, so to speak. 

[HeavenlyHalos]

6 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I know no one asked me, but I'll tell you what I see anyway. 

- He has a simple swing. Less to work on, less can go wrong. 

- He's still, pre-pitch, not many moving parts. While completely facing the pitcher and remaining motionless, he can see the ball clearly. 

- He has a short path to the ball, and he swings through it, rather than to it. This makes his swing look lengthy, but that length is post-contact. Pre-contact, it's very short and direct. As if he's taking BP. 

- He doesn't need to muscle the ball over the fence. He's not strong enough to do that on pace with Trout anyway, and he doesn't have the leverage or long levers of Shohei. What Ward had, which is difficult to teach, is backspin and loft. He places the ball over the wall, so to speak. 

Thanks to both you and @Dochalo for your takes. A great part of this site is how many people take the time to perform these types of analysis and I very much appreciate reading them.

[cals]

50 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Thanks to Maddon sitting him twice in three days

You are also a smart man.  I’ve learned it’s an easy process.  Complain about old hipster = nerds think you genious.

You genious.

[cals]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Gross.

She looks sticky.

 

[stormngt]

44 minutes ago, cals said:

You are also a smart man.  I’ve learned it’s an easy process.  Complain about old hipster = nerds think you genious.

You genious.

Do you mean "genius"? I usually do not comment on typographical errors but you misspelled it twice.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

I saw a comp of Josh Donaldson, who was also drafted as a catcher in the 1st round (2007), eventually transitioned to 3B after a few years in the minors. Donaldson didn't get his first taste of the majors until 24 (2010), then become a star at 27 (2013) and one of the best players in the game for about five years.

We can hope