Qualifying Offer: Good, Bad, Meh.

[WicketMaiden]

Interested on your thoughts about the pros and cons of the Qualifying Offer system. We don't have anything like that over here in Brit, it's not in the general consciousness and I'll happily admit I know little about its history and how it is viewed by players and fans. I know the rules, at least I think I do, but little context aside from being aware that the overwhelming majority of players have declined the offer.

If I understand correctly, the loss of a draft pick for a signing team depresses that free agent's market: fewer teams bid and therefore a less competitive market will likely yield a lower return for the player, particularly the middle of the road guys who have comparable peers in free agency without QO's attached (is that actually true btw? Does anyone have concrete examples of that?).

The gain of a pick to the players' former team, who will have already had service from the player (often during their most cost effective years of service) seems excessive and unfair to me. A Free Agent should be just that, free and unencumbered, particularly after so many years earning millions less than their actual performance value would have dictated in a free market. I see why the clubs do it, the rule is part of the MLB landscape and rightly they try to exploit it, but to me it just seems like a crappy thing to do to a player after years of service.

I don't hear the players saying much against the idea aside from the occasional grumble, which surprises me as it must cost some of them millions, so what am I missing here guys? Is there something good here that I just haven't considered? 

[AngelsLakersFan]

It's a trash rule and the players were stupid enough to accept it in exchange for some meaningless concession like foot massages on the bus or something equally as frivolous. 

It's one of the many things the owners do under the guise of 'competitive balance' that only serves to weigh down player salaries. The players are likely too egotistical to realize that in many cases a first round draft pick is actually more valuable than a 30+ year old free agent.

[Blarg]

The problem with the Qualifying offer is it is based on a non sensical baseline to be applied to all players equally. $18.7 is well over the value of most players this season that qualify. So it is a gun to the owners head to make the offer so they can get something in return when the players opts for free agency or end up blowing way too much money if that player accepts to wait for a more favorable market. 

[Junkballer]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

It's a trash rule and the players were stupid enough to accept it in exchange for some meaningless concession like foot massages on the bus or something equally as frivolous. 

It's one of the many things the owners do under the guise of 'competitive balance' that only serves to weigh down player salaries. The players are likely too egotistical to realize that in many cases a first round draft pick is actually more valuable than a 30+ year old free agent.

I think the only scenario where a team has to give up a first if they have two selections in the first round and they'd give up the second of those picks.

[Angel Oracle]

Didn’t the rule change a while back so that it’s no longer a first round pick lost?

[Jeff Fletcher]

5 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Didn’t the rule change a while back so that it’s no longer a first round pick lost?

Yes. It’s a 2nd round pick 

[Slegnaac]

13 hours ago, Junkballer said:

I think the only scenario where a team has to give up a first if they have two selections in the first round and they'd give up the second of those picks.

If you cannot trade picks, how would a team have two first round picks?

[OldAndInTheWay]

 

58 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

If you cannot trade picks, how would a team have two first round picks?

The Mets will have two first-round draft picks in the 2022 draft–one is their original and the other is the pick they get for Kumar Rocker, their 2021 first-round pick, not coming to terms with the team.

https://metsmerizedonline.com/2021/10/mets-2022-draft-position-set-in-stone.html/

[Blarg]

They should lose both this year's pick and the Rocker pick for being such a fucked up franchise that no one will take the GM job.

[Junkballer]

21 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yes. It’s a 2nd round pick 

The way MLB.com and MLBTR states it , it is is the 2nd highest selection, which appears to mean that if a team had two 1sts, it would lose its 2nd 1st rounder.  Did that change recently?

Quote

• A team that neither exceeded the luxury tax in the preceding season nor receives revenue sharing will lose its second-highest selection in the following year's Draft, as well as $500,000 from its international bonus pool for the upcoming signing period. If it signs two such players, it will also forfeit its third-highest remaining pick and an additional $500,000.

Examples: A team with one pick in each round of the 2019 Draft would lose its second-round pick. A team with two first-round picks would lose its second-highest first-round pick.

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, Junkballer said:

The way MLB.com and MLBTR states it , it is is the 2nd highest selection, which appears to mean that if a team had two 1sts, it would lose its 2nd 1st rounder.  Did that change recently?

 

Yeah it changed about five years ago.

[Junkballer]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yeah it changed about five years ago.

This is from MLB and covers 2017-2021.  It's second selection, not 2nd round.  Splitting hairs really due to the rarity of the scenario.

Quote

 

-The qualifying offer is a competitive balance measure that was implemented as part of the 2012-16 Collective Bargaining Agreement and restructured under the 2017-21 Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Any team that signs a player who has rejected a qualifying offer is subject to the loss of one or more Draft picks. While a team's highest first-round pick is exempt from forfeiture, any additional first-round picks are eligible. Three tiers of Draft pick forfeiture -- which are based on the financial status of the signing team -- are in place to serve as a penalty for signing a player who rejected a qualifying offer.

(Note: Each pick in the first 10 rounds of the Draft has an assigned value, and the total for each of a club's selections equals what it can spend on signing bonuses for players selected in those rounds without incurring a penalty. When a team forfeits a Draft pick, it also surrenders the accompanying bonus pool money associated that pick, independent from any money forfeited from its international bonus pool per the rules below.)

• A team that exceeded the luxury tax in the preceding season will lose its second- and fifth-highest selections in the following year's Draft as well $1 million from its international bonus pool. If such a team signs multiple qualifying offer free agents, it will forfeit its third- and sixth-highest remaining picks as well. If that team loses a free agent, it will be awarded a Draft pick immediately following the fourth round. The Astros, Cubs and Yankees exceeded the threshold in 2020.

Examples: A team with one pick in each round of the 2021 Rule 4 Draft would lose its second- and fifth-round picks. A team with two first-round picks and one pick in each subsequent round would lose its second-highest first-round pick and its fourth-round pick.

• A team that receives revenue sharing will lose its third-highest selection in the following year's Draft. If it signs two such players, it will also forfeit its fourth-highest remaining pick. If that team loses a free agent, it will be awarded a pick between the first round and Competitive Balance Round A if -- and only if -- the lost player signs for at least $50 million. If the lost player signs for less than $50 million, the team's compensation pick would come after Competitive Balance Round B, which follows the second round.

The following 14 teams qualify for these picks during the 2020-21 offseason: Brewers, D-backs, Indians, Mariners, Marlins, Orioles, Padres, Pirates, Rays, Reds, Rockies, Royals, Tigers and Twins.

Examples: A team with one pick in each round of the 2021 Rule 4 Draft would lose its third-round pick. A team with two first-round picks and one pick in each subsequent round would lose its second-round pick.

 

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/qualifying-offer

[Jeff Fletcher]

8 minutes ago, Junkballer said:

This is from MLB and covers 2017-2021.  It's second selection, not 2nd round.  Splitting hairs really due to the rarity of the scenario.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/qualifying-offer

I mean it changed about 5 years ago to the 2nd pick instead of the first. Should have said 2nd pick and not 2nd round. You got me. 

[Blarg]

44 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I mean it changed about 5 years ago to the 2nd pick instead of the first. Should have said 2nd pick and not 2nd round. You got me. 

Someone bookmark this because it is likely to never happen again.

[AngelsLakersFan]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I mean it changed about 5 years ago to the 2nd pick instead of the first. Should have said 2nd pick and not 2nd round. You got me.