Black Sabbath - "13"

[Ray McKigney]

The first four albums didn't make them.  "One" was the only song getting serious airplay and they were really only considered Gods among Metal fans.  It wasn't until the "Black Album" came out that they launched into the stratosphere.  

 

They were already a huge band before the Black album. They played 2 nights at Long Beach arena and 3 nights at Irvine Meadows on the And Justice For All tour. It was the Black album that made them radio-friendly and MTV-friendly. So I guess that did technically launch them into another level. The radio station KNAC played all of their songs before the Black album though, not just One. As a matter of fact, everyday they had "Mandatory Metallica" where they played five or six of their songs in a row.

 

The majority of what they play live today is from the first four albums. They can fall back on them live. Yeah, they play the Black album crap too, but people go to see them play the early stuff. That's probably why they did a tour recently where they played Ride the Lightning in it's entirety. I remember when the Black album was released. I bought it the day it came out and have never been so disappointed by an album from a band I liked before or since.

 

The fact is that during the 90s, after the grunge thing happened, they made the decision to become less metal so that they would fit into what was popular at the time and still be able to get radio airplay. Coincidentally, it was around this same time that KNAC folded and there were no more radio stations left that played hard rock/heavy metal. And ever since then their new music has no direction. Load/Reload was their answer to grunge. St. Anger is how they responded to Nu-Metal, which is why Lars insisted on no guitar solos. Death Magnetic was them trying to get back to the sound of the first four albums, but they just didn't have the chops or writing ability anymore. 

[mulwin444]

They were already a huge band before the Black album. They played 2 nights at Long Beach arena and 3 nights at Irvine Meadows on the And Justice For All tour. It was the Black album that made them radio-friendly and MTV-friendly. So I guess that did technically launch them into another level. The radio station KNAC played all of their songs before the Black album though, not just One. As a matter of fact, everyday they had "Mandatory Metallica" where they played five or six of their songs in a row.

 

The majority of what they play live today is from the first four albums. They can fall back on them live. Yeah, they play the Black album crap too, but people go to see them play the early stuff. That's probably why they did a tour recently where they played Ride the Lightning in it's entirety. I remember when the Black album was released. I bought it the day it came out and have never been so disappointed by an album from a band I liked before or since.

 

The fact is that during the 90s, after the grunge thing happened, they made the decision to become less metal so that they would fit into what was popular at the time and still be able to get radio airplay. Coincidentally, it was around this same time that KNAC folded and there were no more radio stations left that played hard rock/heavy metal. And ever since then their new music has no direction. Load/Reload was their answer to grunge. St. Anger is how they responded to Nu-Metal, which is why Lars insisted on no guitar solos. Death Magnetic was them trying to get back to the sound of the first four albums, but they just didn't have the chops or writing ability anymore. 

It's not a coincidence that KNAC folded when Grunge dominated...the entire musical landscape shifted '89 - '91 and bands that were not universally popular fell by the side as time went on.  I remember being in High School, picking up "Louder Than Love", "Facelift" and "Bleach , and thinking "cool albums" but I had no idea what was to come.  As disappointed in "Black Album" as I was, I remember being more put off by the "Use Your Illusion 1 and 2" albums...it was like 10 great songs surrounded by demos.

[tdawg87]

All rock music was originally done by young males who were pissed off at the world. That doesn't mean that a band/artist can't continue to play the genre of music that made them popular/famous. Slayer and Anthrax are all comprised of rich guys, but they seem to stick to their guns when it comes to their music. They know that is what their fans want to hear and that is what brought them their success. Metallica is simply a case of Lars wanting to follow the trends of what is popular at the point in time they go in to record a new album. If you look at each album that they have released since the Black album, they change their musical style according to what type of heavy music was popular at that time. Luckily for them, they have the luxury of being able to always fall back on the greatness of their first four albums. 

 

Slayer and Anthrax have been awful for just as long as you claim Metallica has. They may have "stuck to their guns" but it got old and stale in the 90's.

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

I'll take Load/Reload over Kill 'em All any day of the week. Come at me.

 

As for Sabbath, I sure hope this will lead to the rest of Ozzy era Sabbath going digital on iTunes, Spotify,Slacker et al.

[Ray McKigney]

Slayer and Anthrax have been awful for just as long as you claim Metallica has. They may have "stuck to their guns" but it got old and stale in the 90's.

 

That's a matter of opinion. I like most of Slayer's albums over the last 20 years. I think they are better with Dave Lombardo on drums rather than Paul Bostaph.  I wasn't a huge fan of Anthrax's stuff with John Bush, but at least they were heavy. Still, I'd rather listen to any Slayer or Anthrax album from the last 20 years than any Metallica album over the same span. Anthrax's last album, "Worship Music," is great. 

[Ray McKigney]

It's not a coincidence that KNAC folded when Grunge dominated...the entire musical landscape shifted '89 - '91 and bands that were not universally popular fell by the side as time went on.  I remember being in High School, picking up "Louder Than Love", "Facelift" and "Bleach , and thinking "cool albums" but I had no idea what was to come.  As disappointed in "Black Album" as I was, I remember being more put off by the "Use Your Illusion 1 and 2" albums...it was like 10 great songs surrounded by demos.

 

Yeah, the Use Your Illusions albums were crap. That was all Axl Rose thinking he was way better than he actually was and insisting on releasing two crappy albums instead of one really good album. I was working at a record store when those were released and we had a "satisfaction guaranteed" policy. Both of those albums were returned 10 times more than any other new releases. 

 

I remember hearing Bleach and Facelift  for the first times too. There was something definitely changing when those came out. Louder Than Love and Ten were pretty important albums too. I always liked Alice in Chains the most out of all those bands. Nirvana was cool too, but his lyrics were always so nonsensical to me. 

[mulwin444]

Yeah, the Use Your Illusions albums were crap. That was all Axl Rose thinking he was way better than he actually was and insisting on releasing two crappy albums instead of one really good album. I was working at a record store when those were released and we had a "satisfaction guaranteed" policy. Both of those albums were returned 10 times more than any other new releases. 

 

I remember hearing Bleach and Facelift  for the first times too. There was something definitely changing when those came out. Louder Than Love and Ten were pretty important albums too. I always liked Alice in Chains the most out of all those bands. Nirvana was cool too, but his lyrics were always so nonsensical to me. 

What really got me interested in Alice In Chains was the Sap EP...I remember thinking "Holy crap, these guys are something" then "Dirt came out and I don't think I took it out of CD player for most of '92.

[Ray McKigney]

What really got me interested in Alice In Chains was the Sap EP...I remember thinking "Holy crap, these guys are something" then "Dirt came out and I don't think I took it out of CD player for most of '92.

 

Yeah, Dirt made me think they were definitely progressing more than any of the other bands. Jerry Cantrell is just a great songwriter. Rooster is still one of my all-time favorite songs. 

[tdawg87]

That's a matter of opinion. I like most of Slayer's albums over the last 20 years. I think they are better with Dave Lombardo on drums rather than Paul Bostaph.  I wasn't a huge fan of Anthrax's stuff with John Bush, but at least they were heavy. Still, I'd rather listen to any Slayer or Anthrax album from the last 20 years than any Metallica album over the same span. Anthrax's last album, "Worship Music," is great. 

 

You'd take "Diabolus in Musica" and "Undisputed Attitude" over Death Magnetic?

 

Well hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Ray McKigney]

You'd take "Diabolus in Musica" and "Undisputed Attitude" over Death Magnetic?

 

Well hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

That's a close call. Like I said, the Paul Bostaph stuff isn't my favorite. Still, Death Magnetic seems cut and pasted together. I'd have to listen to all three again to decide, but I honestly don't know if I could do that sober.

[PercySquint]

I, too, will be attenting the Sabbath LA show. Absolutely cannot wait. Tony Iommi must be feeling a lot better for them to have added so many shows. Good. Iommi has always had the best low E (actually D#) in the business. Looking forward to that grinding roar blasting out of those Laney cabinets.

 

I hear Ozzy is relapsing. Hopefully this makes for a better show as well.

[VariousCrap]

What really got me interested in Alice In Chains was the Sap EP...I remember thinking "Holy crap, these guys are something" then "Dirt came out and I don't think I took it out of CD player for most of '92.

 

 

 

Alice in Chains 'Dirt' is one of my favorite albums of all time.

[VariousCrap]

Yeah, the Use Your Illusions albums were crap. That was all Axl Rose thinking he was way better than he actually was and insisting on releasing two crappy albums instead of one really good album.

 

 

 

To say the 'Use Your Illusions' albums were crap is just untrue.  They are both good albums; however I do agree it would have been better to take the best songs off of both albums and release one brilliant album instead.

[VariousCrap]

They were already a huge band before the Black album.

 

 

 

They were big, but they became huge with 'The Black Album.'  Their biggest album prior to 'The Black Album' had only gone platinum.  'The Black Album' went platinum 10 times.

 

Huge difference.

[arch stanton]

What I've heard of 13 is surprisingly better than I expected. I would love to make one of the shows if I get back in country but I agree that Bill Ward is missed.

 

The first few Metallica albums were right in my wheelhouse at the time. Master of Puppets and Ride The Lightning were my personal favorites. Anything after Black is just sifting through the crap to find a few good songs.

[Ray McKigney]

To say the 'Use Your Illusions' albums were crap is just untrue.  They are both good albums; however I do agree it would have been better to take the best songs off of both albums and release one brilliant album instead.

 

Each of those albums had maybe two good songs. Just my opinion. 

[Ray McKigney]

They were big, but they became huge with 'The Black Album.'  Their biggest album prior to 'The Black Album' had only gone platinum.  'The Black Album' went platinum 10 times.

 

Huge difference.

 

I understand it was the Black Album that paid for their mansions and private jets. That album would have been big no matter what it sounded like. If they had remained true to the sound that had gotten them to that point, they still would have sold millions of albums. Maybe not 10 million, but still a lot. It was their time. They had built up a big enough following with their first four studio albums and EPs and were already a nationwide headlining act. Lars' decision to bring in Bob Rock to produce the album is what changed them into video/radio-friendly music. Can't blame them for seizing the opportunity and grabbing the brass ring. I just think the quality of their music suffered as a result. 

[tdawg87]

I understand it was the Black Album that paid for their mansions and private jets. That album would have been big no matter what it sounded like. If they had remained true to the sound that had gotten them to that point, they still would have sold millions of albums. Maybe not 10 million, but still a lot. It was their time. They had built up a big enough following with their first four studio albums and EPs and were already a nationwide headlining act. Lars' decision to bring in Bob Rock to produce the album is what changed them into video/radio-friendly music. Can't blame them for seizing the opportunity and grabbing the brass ring. I just think the quality of their music suffered as a result. 

 

I respect posts like this a hell of a lot more than the "OMG THEY SOLD OUT" or "CLIFF IS ROLLIN IN HIS GRAVE" shit.

 

I am one of the minority who really likes Load/Reload, but I am not at all ignorant to the quality drop off from their early stuff.

[VariousCrap]

Each of those albums had maybe two good songs. Just my opinion. 

 

 

Yeah...but you also think Slayer and Anthrax have continued to put out good music.  So....

[VariousCrap]

There is some serious Metallica revisionist history being posted in this thread.  lol

[Ray McKigney]

Yeah...but you also think Slayer and Anthrax have continued to put out good music.  So....

 

Have you heard Christ Illusion or Worship Music? Those are both great albums. They sound like vintage Slayer and Anthrax. Granted, both bands have put out some turds over the years, but for the most part, they've been solid and are still playing heavy music. 

[VariousCrap]

Have you heard Christ Illusion or Worship Music? Those are both great albums. They sound like vintage Slayer and Anthrax. Granted, both bands have put out some turds over the years, but for the most part, they've been solid and are still playing heavy music. 

 

 

 

I'm giving you are hard time.  Our opinions don't agree on this or the GnR one.  No biggie.

[Ray McKigney]

I'm giving you are hard time.  Our opinions don't agree on this or the GnR one.  No biggie.

 

I'm a really big GnR fan. Appetite brings back some great memories for me. GnR Lies was great too. I was just disappointed with the UYI albums when they were released. Too much filler. 

[mulwin444]

In regards to "Use Your Illusion", there are probably 8 total songs I'll even listen to between the two CDs (Civil War, Garden of Eden, Coma, Estranged, Perfect Crime, You Could Be Mine, Pretty Tied Up, Locomotive).  There is a shit-load of filler between the two of them, especially the covers. 

[VariousCrap]

Personally, I think that if you took the best songs from the two albums, you could have one excellent album that would have been a legendary follow-up to Appetite.  I'd have to give it some thought though on what songs I'd put on there.  For the record, their remake of Live and Let Die was solid.  I prefer the original, but theirs was great.

 

I did enjoy back in the day when that song was getting radio play and I kept telling people that song was written by Paul McCartney and they didn't believe me.  None of them knew it was a cover.  lol