Arm Mismanagement

[Broad Street]

Have we ever seen players speak up about what they perceive as mismanagement of pitchers arms? 

[tdawg87]

Who is that?

[Taylor]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

Who is that?

DirtStar02. Obviously an expert on sports injuries.

[Broad Street]

17 minutes ago, Taylor said:

DirtStar02. Obviously an expert on sports injuries.

Used to work for the Angels, Major Key is Kenyon Middleton

[tdawg87]

Oooh yikes. I don't think management is going to like that.

[Broad Street]

[tdawg87]

I don't know who he is or what his relationship to the Angels was, so I'll take what he says with a heaping dose of salt. It's certainly an interesting topic of discussion, though. 

I think we all want a more "tangible" answer to the plague of pitching injuries than simply "bad luck". Something like this could be a legitimate reason, but there's really no way to prove it. 

At this point, though, anything and everything should be on the table. It's beyond ridiculous.

[Claude]

I believe in DirtStar02

[mulwin444]

Used to work for the Angels?  What if he was an accountant?

[mulwin444]

13 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

I believe in DirtStar02

Of course you do...

[eligrba4ever]

10 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Used to work for the Angels?  What if he was an accountant?

Peanut vendor?

[mulwin444]

3 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

Peanut vendor?

He's DirtStar...groundskeeper?

[Claude]

19 minutes ago, calscuf said:

Not to sound Straddy, but if it was mismanagement at some point the Angels would change things. It’s not like they’re actively trying to injure their pitchers.

They kept Sosh for 19 years and a lot of those arm injuries happened under his watch. 

[eligrba]

Everyone knows that the only reputable sources to trust play video games with players,

[ten ocho recon scout]

14 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

They kept Sosh for 19 years and a lot of those arm injuries happened under his watch. 

And yet none happened like the first 15 of those 19 Sosh years.

[mulwin444]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And yet none happened like the first 15 of those 19 Sosh years.

Why go with facts when you can go with tired narratives?  I'm sure it's Pujols' fault somehow as well...

[ten ocho recon scout]

@Jeff Fletcher has pointed out before, and its a solid as hell point, that the angels painted themselves in a corner by not developing their own pitchers. With no money and nothing to trade, the guys we were actually able to acquire were in most cases already question marks.

Richards. Need TJ, tried to avoid it, then needed it. Ohtani, signed with an already torn UCL. Meyer. Shoulder damage. Canning had concerns when drafted. Etc etc. 

So I have no idea if the Angels are or arent abusing their pitchers. But it cant be ignored that at least with a decent chunk of these guys, there were already some concerns when we got them.

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Why go with facts when you can go with tired narratives?  I'm sure it's Pujols' fault somehow as well...

The craziest was Lackey. How sosh used his voodoo doll to wreck his elbow AFTER he left here!

[Docwaukee]

I'm very curious as to what is considered mismanagement.  

is it the fact that key went from 29ip to 67ip from 2013 to 2014 or to 125.2ip the year after?

is it the 46 appearances he made in 2016 after being groomed as a starter?  

is it the 74 appearances he mad e in 2017?  

is it the prep or the post? 

is it the rest in between? 

was it the Dipoto regime that caused the problems?  because that's when it seems everything started to go down hill and/or shortly after he left 

[Broad Street]

Yeah I think people are more focused on who DirtStar02 is instead of a pitcher’s feeling on the subject. THAT is more telling to me, and I’m more inclined to believe the player over management. 

[Broad Street]

26 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

@Jeff Fletcher has pointed out before, and its a solid as hell point, that the angels painted themselves in a corner by not developing their own pitchers. With no money and nothing to trade, the guys we were actually able to acquire were in most cases already question marks.

Richards. Need TJ, tried to avoid it, then needed it. Ohtani, signed with an already torn UCL. Meyer. Shoulder damage. Canning had concerns when drafted. Etc etc. 

So I have no idea if the Angels are or arent abusing their pitchers. But it cant be ignored that at least with a decent chunk of these guys, there were already some concerns when we got them.

Skaggs

Heaney

Richards

Middleton

Ramirez

None of them had any prior history. Is it just bad luck? 

[JAHV76]

59 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

Peanut vendor?

The salty nuts guy?

[Docwaukee]

as some have mentioned, which of the Halo pitchers were home grown and abused?  

Heaney pitched 184 innings between the bigs and AAA in 2015 after throwing 167 the year before with Miami.  Was that the tipping point?  

Skaggs went 158.1 in 2011, 152 in 2012 and 148 in 2013 all for the dback and then 116 for the Angels in 2014.  

Richards was 143 in 2010, 157 in 2011, 148 in 2012, 145 in 2013, 168.2 in 2014, 212 in 2015 with a knee injury in between 2014/2015, and then the injuries started.  

JC Ramirez went from 66ip in 2015 to 84 in 2016, to 147 in 2017.  

Middleton we know about.  

Shoemaker has a different injury history.  

So does CJ Wilson

so does Nick Tropeano

and Alex Meyer

and Cam Bedrosian

and Ohtani

Someone give me a pattern here.  The only thing I see that most have in common is that the injury history started during the dipoto era but it didn't stop there.  

How many of those guys got the bulk of their work under MS? 

someone help me out.  

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Kody Mac said:

Skaggs

Heaney

Richards

Middleton

Ramirez

None of them had any prior history. Is it just bad luck? 

but their time with the Angels isn't consistent between when they started and when they got injured.  Neither is their workload.  Neither is the management of who directed their workload.  Neither is the level they were at or the coaches they were subject to.  

I'm not here to make excuses, but the root cause doesn't seem overly apparent to me and one pitcher could have be overworked but that doesn't me the entire system is broken.  It's the correlation causation argument.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm very curious as to what is considered mismanagement.  

is it the fact that key went from 29ip to 67ip from 2013 to 2014 or to 125.2ip the year after?

is it the 46 appearances he made in 2016 after being groomed as a starter?  

is it the 74 appearances he mad e in 2017?  

is it the prep or the post? 

is it the rest in between? 

was it the Dipoto regime that caused the problems?  because that's when it seems everything started to go down hill and/or shortly after he left 

FWIW, im curious about the basketball part. If he was never a full time pitcher, then not sure how to read that. Not sure how to compare that background against a guy who played baseball "the traditional way" before drafted.

Good point on Dipoto. I wont go so far as to point fingers, but he definitely was at the helm for a lot of the pickups that went bad.