LA homelessness numbers increasing

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

My sons make decent money for their age. They can't afford to buy, simply because their rent absorbs the same income as a house payment, leaving them little to put in savings for a down payment. That down payment is the equivalent of the cost of our first home. People less fortunate on the pay scale are just barely getting by and a couple month job loss can put them on the streets.

this is my situation, too. my wife and i pay $1775 a month on a rental from our employer. we decided to downsize from our previous townhouse where we were paying $2300, which was killing us.

we've both felt that we should have saved for something like a condo when we were first married. hindsight is 20/20, and we've both come to accept that we'll never be homeowners, and we're okay with it.

i'm planning on retiring in 8 years and we'll likely have to seriously consider moving to a new state with lower taxes and rental prices. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

32 minutes ago, Tank said:

i'm planning on retiring in 8 years and we'll likely have to seriously consider moving to a new state with lower taxes and rental prices. 

If you don't own a place that's paid off, close to it or cheap by today's standards on a monthly basis I think you'd be insane not to move somewhere else.  I've got a ways to go but the only way I could see myself here in retirement is if my mom is still alive or I have kids living here I want to be close to.  

[mp170.6]

29 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

I'm a year older than mp, started at a JC then transferred to CSULB.  I realize it's definitely gotten more expensive and competitive but there are still cheaper options than 100K+ in student loans.  My wife went the same route taking a bit longer and graduating 6 years after I did with no debt.  Her sister had a full ride athletic scholarship, got a degree she apparently didn't intend to use then decided she wanted to do something else.  Instead of coming back home and going to school locally she took out student loans to get the second degree while living in another state.  Someone locally in the field she wanted to major in told her to come back home and save money by going to one of the local schools where the programs were just as good but she didn't want to.  She will still be pissing and moaning about her student loans long after they're paid off.

The part so frequently overlooked with student loans is the opportunity cost.

I was curious so I found a student loan calculator.  The young couple I know with $280,000 in student loan debt - over 30 years at 6% interest, they're paying $1678/month.  Take the same $1678/month and invest in mutual funds at a modest 8% return and they would have themselves $2.3 million after 30 years. 

The ROI for their music degrees will not come close to that amount.

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Just now, mp170.6 said:

The part so frequently overlooked with student loans is the opportunity cost.

I was curious so I found a student loan calculator.  The young couple I know with $280,000 in student loan debt - over 30 years at 6% interest, they're paying $1678/month.  Take the same $1678/month and invest in mutual funds at a modest 8% return and they would have themselves $2.3 million after 30 years. 

The ROI for their music degrees will not come close to that amount.

I chuckled reading your post because it reminds me of a guy on another board I frequent which is money/investing related.  He's a retiree and always points out to people about the value of time and compounding.  Whenever someone with a low fixed rate mortgage is talking about paying more than the minimum he tells them how much better off in the long run they are paying the regular payment and investing the rest in an S&P index fund.  Obviously people have different risk tolerances and preferences so some opt to pay it off but I'm more in his camp.      

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, mp170.6 said:

I'm 36 and went to CSUF.  Tuition was probably $1200 a semester back then.  I don't deny the fact that, by today's standards, I'm very fortunate to have paid that little. 

The real problem comes from our parents and grandparents who remain convinced college is the only way to success and knowledge.  Without their prodding, would you have gone to college at all?  I probably wouldn't have.

I would have gone to college, but I probably wouldn't have gone to a private school like I did. At 18, I was woefully unprepared for the cost of college or consequences of taking out student loans. My parents definitely failed to prepare me for that. 

Still, tuition costs are way higher than they should be, and colleges know this. They juke up the prices because ignorant 18 year olds who don't know any better will accept tens of thousands of dollars of student loans.

[mp170.6]

6 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I would have gone to college, but I probably wouldn't have gone to a private school like I did. At 18, I was woefully unprepared for the cost of college or consequences of taking out student loans. My parents definitely failed to prepare me for that. 

Still, tuition costs are way higher than they should be, and colleges know this. They juke up the prices because ignorant 18 year olds who don't know any better will accept tens of thousands of dollars of student loans.

I didn't mean to make you feel depressed about your student loans.  Sorry if I did.

There's still plenty of time, and various ways, to come out ahead financially. 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, mp170.6 said:

I didn't mean to make you feel depressed about your student loans.  Sorry if I did.

There's still plenty of time, and various ways, to come out ahead financially. 

No worries. My wife is currently in school, and once she gets into her career, we're going to live on my salary alone and use hers 100% to knock out student loans. We'll likely be debt-free in about 3-5 years.

[Taylor]

I'm also not in as big of a hole as your friends with music degrees. I owe about $40,000 to our federal government.

[mp170.6]

21 minutes ago, Taylor said:

No worries. My wife is currently in school, and once she gets into her career, we're going to live on my salary alone and use hers 100% to knock out student loans. We'll likely be debt-free in about 3-5 years.

Without knowing the amount of your combined student loans, check this out. 

She gets a job, and after a year or so, you guys are able to invest $15,000 in mutual funds.  Leave it alone for 30 years and assume 8% return, you'll have yourself $150,939.  It's really that simple.  Me personally, I would focus on getting some money invested instead of paying off the loan debt.  You'll be far better off in the long term.

Years	Future Value (8.00%)	Total Contributions
Year 0	$15,000.00	$15,000.00
Year 1	$16,200.00	$15,000.00
Year 2	$17,496.00	$15,000.00
Year 3	$18,895.68	$15,000.00
Year 4	$20,407.33	$15,000.00
Year 5	$22,039.92	$15,000.00
Year 6	$23,803.11	$15,000.00
Year 7	$25,707.36	$15,000.00
Year 8	$27,763.95	$15,000.00
Year 9	$29,985.07	$15,000.00
Year 10	$32,383.87	$15,000.00
Year 11	$34,974.58	$15,000.00
Year 12	$37,772.55	$15,000.00
Year 13	$40,794.36	$15,000.00
Year 14	$44,057.90	$15,000.00
Year 15	$47,582.54	$15,000.00
Year 16	$51,389.14	$15,000.00
Year 17	$55,500.27	$15,000.00
Year 18	$59,940.29	$15,000.00
Year 19	$64,735.52	$15,000.00
Year 20	$69,914.36	$15,000.00
Year 21	$75,507.51	$15,000.00
Year 22	$81,548.11	$15,000.00
Year 23	$88,071.95	$15,000.00
Year 24	$95,117.71	$15,000.00
Year 25	$102,727.13	$15,000.00
Year 26	$110,945.30	$15,000.00
Year 27	$119,820.92	$15,000.00
Year 28	$129,406.60	$15,000.00
Year 29	$139,759.12	$15,000.00
Year 30	$150,939.85	$15,000.00

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

23 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I would have gone to college, but I probably wouldn't have gone to a private school like I did. At 18, I was woefully unprepared for the cost of college or consequences of taking out student loans. My parents definitely failed to prepare me for that. 

Still, tuition costs are way higher than they should be, and colleges know this. They juke up the prices because ignorant 18 year olds who don't know any better will accept tens of thousands of dollars of student loans.

Agreed but one big contributing factor is the federal government guaranteeing student loans.  The federal government guarantees loans to 18 year old kids who don't all need to go to a 4 year school or in some cases to college at all. 

[Taylor]

30 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Agreed but one big contributing factor is the federal government guaranteeing student loans.  The federal government guarantees loans to 18 year old kids who don't all need to go to a 4 year school or in some cases to college at all. 

It's true. And I'd argue that those government loans are just as predatory as private loans.

[Taylor]

36 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

Without knowing the amount of your combined student loans, check this out. 

She gets a job, and after a year or so, you guys are able to invest $15,000 in mutual funds.  Leave it alone for 30 years and assume 8% return, you'll have yourself $150,939.  It's really that simple.  Me personally, I would focus on getting some money invested instead of paying off the loan debt.  You'll be far better off in the long term.

Interesting. Can you really assume 8% returns, though? Or is there a risk that you'd end up breaking even or actually losing money?

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

11 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Interesting. Can you really assume 8% returns, though? Or is there a risk that you'd end up breaking even or actually losing money?

You can never assume anything.  That said over any 30 year period of the S&P500 returns are roughly 10% annualized when dividends are reinvested.  This even includes the flat period from 1966-1981.  That means roughly ever 7 years a lump sum invested would double.  Obviously one year it could be up 10%, down 20% year 2, flat year 3, etc. but historically 10% annualized returns have been the case.  You can invest in an S&P500 index fund for a fee as low as 0.0004 a year or $4 for every $10,000 invested.  Doing so would give you investments in companies across multiple industries who operate all over the world which means it's diversified.  There's nothing to do except put money in over the years and watch it grow.

[mrwicked]

LA and SF homeless, housing and humanitarian crises are clear examples of the result of decades of unchecked "progressive" policies. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 6/5/2019 at 3:38 PM, mp170.6 said:

There was a recent survey where LA homeless were asked if they would abide by rules to NOT use alcohol or drugs while staying at the shelters. 

Something like 60% or 70% said they wouldn't respect the rules.  These people can't be helped.  Their attitude sucks.

This.

And something that a lot of people dont know. A good chunk of our hobos arent locals. Theyre from other states. Theyre here because they know the laws are so laxed. Plus the weather.

If youre a homeless addict, would you prefer cold and rain (outside of this year) and going to jail for possession? Or beach climate, and a ticket you dont have to pay?

When we relaxed laws a few years back everyone applauded because of the savings. We pay for it in other ways now.

[gotbeer]

Just got back from a morning stroll on Venice Beach.  Well, that's going to get interesting.  Only saw one guy sleeping on the beach.  But now that the weather is getting warmer, I can see a lot of the beaches taken over during the evening/mornings.  Oddly, of all their no signs posted, I don't think I saw no camping as one of the posts.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

32 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

This.

And something that a lot of people dont know. A good chunk of our hobos arent locals. Theyre from other states. Theyre here because they know the laws are so laxed. Plus the weather.

If youre a homeless addict, would you prefer cold and rain (outside of this year) and going to jail for possession? Or beach climate, and a ticket you dont have to pay?

When we relaxed laws a few years back everyone applauded because of the savings. We pay for it in other ways now.

We went to Palm Springs a few years back and after going to the main strip I was left wondering how anyone who was homeless there hadn't done everything in their power to get closer to the coast.  I know there's no simple solution but the problem with just throwing money at this type of issue just guarantees more people will come.  In our area we used to see the same 3 people who would always be on the move during the day and we now see 6 regulars and a couple new people just last week standing at intersections panhandling.    

[mp170.6]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

This.

And something that a lot of people dont know. A good chunk of our hobos arent locals. Theyre from other states. Theyre here because they know the laws are so laxed. Plus the weather.

If youre a homeless addict, would you prefer cold and rain (outside of this year) and going to jail for possession? Or beach climate, and a ticket you dont have to pay?

When we relaxed laws a few years back everyone applauded because of the savings. We pay for it in other ways now.

You're in law enforcement, correct?

Isn't being homeless these days more or less a "right to misdemeanor" all they want without consequences?

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I always wondered about that.  There's no loitering signs posted in some areas yet there's people who post up and in some cases live there.  I realize law enforcement has bigger things to worry about though.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

This.

And something that a lot of people dont know. A good chunk of our hobos arent locals. Theyre from other states. Theyre here because they know the laws are so laxed. Plus the weather.

If youre a homeless addict, would you prefer cold and rain (outside of this year) and going to jail for possession? Or beach climate, and a ticket you dont have to pay?

When we relaxed laws a few years back everyone applauded because of the savings. We pay for it in other ways now.

What if we just incinerated them?

 

 

 

[T.G.]

After reading this thread, it's no longer a surprise to me that some people can't afford parking at Angels Stadium.

All kidding aside, I have no idea what-so-ever how the younger generations afford any kind of housing these days in California.  And it's only getting worse. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, mp170.6 said:

You're in law enforcement, correct?

Isn't being homeless these days more or less a "right to misdemeanor" all they want without consequences?

For the most part, yes. (Not just hobos, though).

Essentially, the majority of them do commit low level crimes pretty often. Things like trespassing, pissing in public, public intoxication. Things like that. Community caretaking crimes, not "big deal" stuff.

The next group is the daily customers. Mainly stealing and fighting. And dope. Literally every one of them has a pipe or needle on them. 

So if we arrest them, its usually a ticket (cite and release). If they make their appearance in homeless court, its usually dismissed as a "thanks for showing up". If they dont, they get a warrant.

When we take them for warrants, we have to take all their crap... this is a far bigger deal than it sounds like. Inventory for the typical hobo cart and backpack usually takes an hour (plus the hour at jail booking). So you tie up the cop for about 3 hours for the warrant they get released on the next morning...

And you do it weekly for the same faces.

If you get them with dope, its an arrest (ticket). If they OD, its no crime, just medical aid call.

The last group are the real bad guys. Guys who should be locked up, but are out on parole. Lots of gangsters. They prey on the other hobos.

I dont put the mental health, or the down on their luck crowd in the last category, and not a huge chunk of the second. Most real schizophrenic homeless you only see at night. Like raccoons, they hide somewhere in the day, come out at night and dig in the trash. They dont like being around people.

And the reality is, theres nowhere to "put them". There are virtually no mental health facilities. We 5150 every hour... unless you literally tried suicide, the 72 hour hold is usually more like 3 at the ER...released with a doctors appointment a few days later.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I heard something a few weeks back that the OC manager is pissed so many homeless died last year. He said 1 a day found dead on the streets of the county.

This is politician talk. Every city takes several dead people in homes EVERY day. People die. Its what we do.

But this guy is saying we need more accountability...aka, it will fall on PD. Literally all these social programs end with us... even when there is another agency who handles it. Social services, child abuse registry, hospitals, etc... when they hit a roadblock, ie someone not going with the program, they call us. Its how you eliminate liability. "We called the police". Now it becomes "and what did the police do?"

This may ruffle some feathers, but needs to be said. I hear people say all the time that cops need more training. Ok, sure. But when do we acknowledge not everything is a police issue. Who assigned us social worker status to begin with? How many hats can I wear and still be an expert in?

If i were asked what my job is by say someone from another country, id be stumped to answer. Its technically law enforcement. 

So I try to prevent, or otherwise respond to theft. And assault. And domestic violence. Child abuse, both assault and molestation. Traffic accidents, where im supposed to take a report so your insurance company doesnt have to. 

Then you add mental health. Counselor. Attempt to locate for other agencies (where now I own it). Medical. This one is new. Now im mandated to carry narcan. 

So in terms of "more training", I have to constantly retrain for new laws (yearly), pursuit driving, first aid, mental health, etc etc etc. When exactly would i be in service?

Sorry for the rant.

[ten ocho recon scout]

26 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

What if we just incinerated them?

 

 

 

Remember that movie "surviving the game" when Ice T is homeless and being hunted? 

Anything with rutger hauer AND gary busey is gonna be gold.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

TORS reading your posts made me wonder how much we spend on keeping some of those that are addicted to drugs alive.  Those shots can't be cheap and you've got people who have been given it multiple times to save their lives.  Add in the time cost law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, nurses, doctors and so on to treat or deal with these individuals and I imagine there's a ridiculous sum of money spent on a thankless effort when a high percentage are right back at it the next day.  Meanwhile more and more people can't afford health insurance or their prescriptions.