LA homelessness numbers increasing

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-francisco-forced-treatment-drug-abusers-20190604-story.html

"San Francisco’s program would allow a court to appoint a public conservator for someone who has been involuntarily detained for psychiatric hospitalization at least eight times in a year. The treatment could last for as long as a year."

Initially it applies to a small group but that number could grow.  Technically maybe some or all have broken the law but it's an attempt to get people who have serious mental issues off the streets and the help they need.  At least it's a start but if there's ever a judge to declare it unconstitutional or shoot it down he or she is in San Francisco. 

Interesting, I'd like to see that expand beyond just San Francisco, as we don't have anything like that in the rest of the state. At the same time that is a serious hurdle, in that 8 detainments in a year is quite a bit, and that only leads to one year maximum of forced treatment. At lot of work to get someone off the street for such a short time.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

16 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

For the majority of people living on the streets it's a choice. The reason there are more people living on the streets now is because more people are making that choice. Affordable housing is certainly an issue for short term homelessness and a growing number of people living in their cars, but the increasing number of people passed out on sidewalks or setting up shop under an overpass is unrelated. I would wager that the most significant factor is the opioid crisis and our great weather, which makes living outside possible year around... among other things of course.

I don't disagree at all but at least transitional housing and the like come with strings attached.  Simply dedicating more money towards the homeless population and building more shelters is only going to entice people to come.  I'd love to see how many people in the 12% increase are even from CA.

In HB they have people who get high downtown, the city cleans up the needles in the morning then some of those people spend all day at the beach.  There's no desire on their part to change their lives and why would there be when they have great weather and are getting by hanging out in the sun all day.  I'm not opposed to people who need it getting a helping hand but as a taxpayer I have issues with people who are bums as in lazy by choice. 

[Amazing Larry]

In true communist fashion mayor Garcetti blames businesses for the trash buildup instead of the bums responsible for it. 

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/LA-I-Team-LA-Mayor-Blames-Businesses-Not-Homeless-For-Rat-Infested-Trash-on-Streets-510953051.html

[Blarg]

On 6/4/2019 at 11:30 PM, Lhalo said:

Open up the looney bins and start arresting bums who break the law. The people living on skid row aren’t women and children, they’re criminals, nutballs and drug addicts. 

You may want to see some statistics regarding your statement. 

[Blarg]

On 6/5/2019 at 3:38 PM, mp170.6 said:

There was a recent survey where LA homeless were asked if they would abide by rules to NOT use alcohol or drugs while staying at the shelters. 

Something like 60% or 70% said they wouldn't respect the rules.  These people can't be helped.  Their attitude sucks.

Or they know their addiction is greater than willpower but still are able to speak truthfully about it. There are plenty of people that bounce in and out of rehab for drug and alcohol addiction and fall right back into all the same patterns even with a strong support system. You think offering a bed and shower is that support system? If so, you're dead wrong. 

[eaterfan]

Maybe it has to do with the population increasing at a much faster rate than housing has increased over the last thirty years. Zoning restrictions have made keeping up with the population increases impossible and driven up the price of homeownership and rent. Combined with wage stagnation over that time period, it's a recipe for homelessness.

But I'm sure it's just that 16% more people decided to live on the street this year.

[Amazing Larry]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

You may want to see some statistics regarding your statement. 

LOL. I don't need slanted statistics to tell me what my own eyes see. I drove down San Pedro last week and saw 2 women and zero children. I also saw a crack head pretend to direct traffic in the middle of a busy intersection.

[Blarg]

Yup, just like watching baseball. You don't need no damn statistics to tell you what your eyes never saw.

[Blarg]

30 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Maybe it has to do with the population increasing at a much faster rate than housing has increased over the last thirty years. Zoning restrictions have made keeping up with the population increases impossible and driven up the price of homeownership and rent. Combined with wage stagnation over that time period, it's a recipe for homelessness.

But I'm sure it's just that 16% more people decided to live on the street this year.

It's not even that. The huge rise in housing values created by runaway real estate speculation,  has led to new buyers priced out of the market and left with only equally high rent apartment living. They are making the equivalent of a $300K home in rent payments when their income doesn't support that. 

My sons make decent money for their age. They can't afford to buy, simply because their rent absorbs the same income as a house payment, leaving them little to put in savings for a down payment. That down payment is the equivalent of the cost of our first home. People less fortunate on the pay scale are just barely getting by and a couple month job loss can put them on the streets.

The problem isn't so complex, we priced ourselves into this position by the 90's rise in housing costs that went unchecked and only momentarily reset during the crash. It is now only solved by a catastrophic market reset, that won't happen, or just waiting for inflation to even the scales as housing prices stay fixed and salaries rise and that is doubtful.

We have more people leaving the state than migrating to California. That population decrease is probably negated by children born. But I can see the baby boom generation saying to hell with this place. All of the reasons their lifestyle was so good here has eroded and it's time to get out before the tax rate eats their nest egg well before they age out.  The question for all of us in that category is where can we land that is senior friendly but not the shithole states that is freezing in the winter and a sweatbox in the summer.

[Amazing Larry]

27 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Yup, just like watching baseball. You don't need no damn statistics to tell you what your eyes never saw.

I'm talking about skid row Blarg, not homeless shelters and temporary housing. It doesn't take a genius to know there are no kids on skid row. If you have facts to tell me otherwise I'll kindly wait for you to post them.

[Blarg]

Then you are not discussing the homeless problem. You are discussing Skid Row.

[Taylor]

43 minutes ago, Blarg said:

My sons make decent money for their age. They can't afford to buy, simply because their rent absorbs the same income as a house payment, leaving them little to put in savings for a down payment. That down payment is the equivalent of the cost of our first home.

This is where my wife and I are at. We pay $1,700 for a one-bedroom apartment in Lake Forest. I don't see how we'll ever buy in OC, unless the housing market crashes again.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Taylor

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, eaterfan said:

Maybe it has to do with the population increasing at a much faster rate than housing has increased over the last thirty years. Zoning restrictions have made keeping up with the population increases impossible and driven up the price of homeownership and rent. Combined with wage stagnation over that time period, it's a recipe for homelessness.

But I'm sure it's just that 16% more people decided to live on the street this year.

I'm really not sure why you completely write off the growing drug problem this nation is facing that has coincided with this surge in homelessness.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

This is where my wife and I are at. We pay $1,700 for a one-bedroom apartment in Lake Forest. I don't see how we'll ever buy in OC, unless the housing market crashes again.

In certain parts of OC even with let's say a 25% correction you're asking the impossible if you want to pay $1,700 a month on a mortgage.  I bought almost 7 years ago financing $337,000 at 3.625% and my payment all in with HOA is $2,240 a month.  Since then my place is up over 60% which is ridiculous.  The further south you go you start getting into melloroos and higher HOA's at least from the few people I know down that way.       

[eaterfan]

21 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

In certain parts of OC even with let's say a 25% correction you're asking the impossible if you want to pay $1,700 a month on a mortgage.  I bought almost 7 years ago financing $337,000 at 3.625% and my payment all in with HOA is $2,240 a month.  Since then my place is up over 60% which is ridiculous.  The further south you go you start getting into melloroos and higher HOA's at least from the few people I know down that way.       

With rent that high it's impossible to save up for a down payment, especially if you have student loan debt.

It's a huge problem and it's why SB50 would be a huge help. Allowing more density in urban areas will help relieve some of the pressures on the rental market. But we're just so far behind on building housing that even if we build at a much improved rate it will still be decades until we get where we need to be.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

35 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

With rent that high it's impossible to save up for a down payment, especially if you have student loan debt.

It's a huge problem and it's why SB50 would be a huge help. Allowing more density in urban areas will help relieve some of the pressures on the rental market. But we're just so far behind on building housing that even if we build at a much improved rate it will still be decades until we get where we need to be.

Rents are definitely high but I know people who pay less than $1,500 for nice places in OC generally where you look for "for rent" signs and not the massive apartment complexes.  On the other hand I know people who pay quite a bit more living in places like Irvine which is nice but pricey.  A scary number of people in the US can't come up with $400 for an emergency and for most it's not because of what the necessities are costing them.  I realize $400 isn't a down payment on a place but it's telling about how a lot of people handle their finances.  I've seen a lot of people who grew up here get priced out but I still see people who live below their means, save up and are able to buy many of which did it without any help from parents.        

For the record younger generations getting help definitely isn't unusual it just is in my circle of friends: 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/annehelenpetersen/millennials-homeowners-mortgage-buying-house-apartment

I think a lot of things have changed the American Dream and the world we live in.  Shortage of housing, expectations of first time home, people living off credit, foreign buyers, stagnant wages, global economy with the rest of the world catching up and the list goes on.

[OCAngelsNotLAA]

People need to make smarter decisions with their money too.  Its easy to save when you live with your parents but everyone wants to move out asap and be on their own.  I lived at home through college instead of renting somewhere like most of my friends and had a fulltime job at the same time.  In those 4 years I saved up enough for a down payment on a 2 bedroom condo in Anaheim.  Rented out one of the rooms to a friend for the 5 years i lived their because i couldnt afford the $1,600 mortgage on my own.  Sold it for 150K profit and bought a 3 bedroom house in Anaheim with the profits.  My mortgage is now $1800 and I only owe 244K on a house worth 570K.  I have never made more than $55K/year at my job and yet i have friends that make 100k+ a year and can't afford to buy a house in OC.   I understand people have different situations then me and not everyone could do this but i always saw renting as the biggest waste of money and made my monetary plans around that thought process.  

[mp170.6]

24 minutes ago, OCAngelsNotLAA said:

People need to make smarter decisions with their money too. 

That includes student loan debt. 

I know a young couple who graduated from a private university with music degrees.  Both are 25.  Combined, they have $280,000 of student loans.  He's trying to become a securities broker, and she's working at Trader Joe's because nobody else will hire her.

[OCAngelsNotLAA]

Just now, mp170.6 said:

That includes student loan debt. 

I know a young couple who graduated from a private university with music degrees.  Both are 25.  Combined, they have $280,000 of student loans.  He's trying to become a securities broker, and she's working at Trader Joe's because nobody else will hire her.

Seriously! I went to a state school so that I didn't need any student loans.  I might not have a "prestigious" degree but I had $0 student loan debt when I graduated.  

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

2 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

That includes student loan debt. 

I know a young couple who graduated from a private university with music degrees.  Both are 25.  Combined, they have $280,000 of student loans.  He's trying to become a securities broker, and she's working at Trader Joe's because nobody else will hire her.

There's an recent article I wish I could find that talked about underemployment of college grads.  There was a trend regarding those that were underemployed and it had to do with the degrees they received.  I don't blame anyone who follows their dream or goes into a field that doesn't pay well because they want to help others but you need to consider the return before racking up debt.  When I started college in 2000 that was definitely a time when you heard you need a degree to compete, make more, etc.  That was true for the most part but I came across too many people who were just going through the motions because their parents expected them to. 

[Taylor]

20 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

That includes student loan debt. 

I know a young couple who graduated from a private university with music degrees.  Both are 25.  Combined, they have $280,000 of student loans.  He's trying to become a securities broker, and she's working at Trader Joe's because nobody else will hire her.

mp, how old are you?

If I had to guess, I'd say that college was far less expensive when you were in your 20s than it is now. Yes, it's probably not wise to get a music degree at $140,000 apiece, but unless your parents are uber rich, it's pretty much impossible to go to college these days without student loans.

[Taylor]

16 minutes ago, OCAngelsNotLAA said:

Seriously! I went to a state school so that I didn't need any student loans.  I might not have a "prestigious" degree but I had $0 student loan debt when I graduated.  

How old are you and where did you go to school? I just looked up Cal State Fullerton's tuition and was surprised by how cheap it is ($6,500 per year for in-state students). 

[mp170.6]

8 minutes ago, Taylor said:

mp, how old are you?

If I had to guess, I'd say that college was far less expensive when you were in your 20s than it is now. Yes, it's probably not wise to get a music degree at $140,000 apiece, but unless your parents are uber rich, it's pretty much impossible to go to college these days without student loans.

I'm 36 and went to CSUF.  Tuition was probably $1200 a semester back then.  I don't deny the fact that, by today's standards, I'm very fortunate to have paid that little. 

The real problem comes from our parents and grandparents who remain convinced college is the only way to success and knowledge.  Without their prodding, would you have gone to college at all?  I probably wouldn't have.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I'm a year older than mp, started at a JC then transferred to CSULB.  I realize it's definitely gotten more expensive and competitive but there are still cheaper options than 100K+ in student loans.  My wife went the same route taking a bit longer and graduating 6 years after I did with no debt.  Her sister had a full ride athletic scholarship, got a degree she apparently didn't intend to use then decided she wanted to do something else.  Instead of coming back home and going to school locally she took out student loans to get the second degree while living in another state.  Someone locally in the field she wanted to major in told her to come back home and save money by going to one of the local schools where the programs were just as good but she didn't want to.  She will still be pissing and moaning about her student loans long after they're paid off. 

I ran into a buddy from high school about a year after graduating college while he went away and had the college experience part of me would have liked to have.  He got a valuable degree and has a career now but he definitely regretted taking on that debt to get a degree he could have gotten locally while living at home.  Some people don't have the option but it's not impossible for many to live at home, work while going to school, go to a JC/state school and get out with manageable or even no debt.  Life is all about choices just don't expect others to pay for your choices or bail you out.

[OCAngelsNotLAA]

52 minutes ago, Taylor said:

How old are you and where did you go to school? I just looked up Cal State Fullerton's tuition and was surprised by how cheap it is ($6,500 per year for in-state students). 

33. I went to Cal State Fullerton too.