Another opener question

[Inside Pitch]

56 minutes ago, Tank said:

So does this mean Mariano Rivera should have started the all star game?

Clearly it means the Yankees misused the greatest opener of all time. 

Stupid Yankees.

[floplag]

38 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Actually I made a statement.  YOU in response asked "why devalue the win even further?"  It appears you are struggling to follow along with the flow of the conversation.

My point is that anyone obsessing on protecting the "value" of the statistic is a wasting their time and that a better move would be to rework the statistic to actually measure pitcher performance and thus have it actually be useful as anything other than a scoring rule.

There is no double talk, just a belief that pitcher wins as a statistic offers little value when looking for insight.   

What exactly is it you view as accurate?  Because it seems you place a great deal of value on pitcher wins. 

You referred to the usage of an opener as a "crutch" and that a pitcher shouldn't be called a starter if he can't go 5 innings both of which evoke mental images of an old man yelling at a cloud. 

You say you'd like to see a statistic that measures pitcher ERA while facing select parts of the lineup.  Obviously you think wins are actually meaningful, why else put so much effort into trying to protect the integrity of pitcher wins instead of actually admitting that the stat doesn't really tell us much about how the pitchers performance.  

And this response is why I purposely chose not to point to specific examples that you would dismiss as extreme...   There are dozens of non extreme situations that he could of used.

Agree across the board.   Even Cy Young award voters stopped putting a lot of weight in pitcher wins totals in recent years..   The opener is a tactic, the win is a scoring record.  Great starting pitchers won't be affected by either.

and as usual its always the other guy not getting it and while making assumptions the other person isnt even arguing.  

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, floplag said:

and as usual its always the other guy not getting it and while making assumptions the other person isnt even arguing.  

Indeed -- everything has gone as expected. 

Projecting your faults onto others -- check.   Pretending you're being misunderstood while misrepresenting what others have said -- check.  The dodging of a direct question because you know it will undermine your entire positon -- check.  It's the Floplag trifecta.   Only thing left for you to do now is play the victim or pretend you're above it all and claim "I'm done."

You know my favorite part of this -- your entire beef (what you think others don't get), is that the rule is a starting pitcher must go 5 innings to get the win but you're glossing over where it continues that "otherwise it's up to the official scorer to award the win to the RP deemed most effective. "  Guess what! that is EXACTLY whats happening.  

The rules are being followed as written -- you can shut up now.  

Edited May 12, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[tdawg87]

[Lou]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Projecting your faults onto others -- check.   Pretending you're being misunderstood while misrepresenting what others have said -- check.  The dodging of a direct question because you know it will undermine your entire positon -- check.  It's the Floplag trifecta.   Only thing left for you to do now is play the victim or pretend your above it all and claim "I'm done" 

[AngelsLakersFan]

21 hours ago, floplag said:

and thats when the reliever would come in as opposed to assuming he wont.  Again i think were blurring the line here for the reasons an opener is used

 

i didnt say that did i?  but that also hasnt happened yet so your using an extreme example to justify the point.  if an opener goes 1, the starer goes the next 4, and the bullpen finishes the last 4, giving him the win is to me a loophole.  WE all know the rules says the starter has to go 5, in this case he should have to pitch the 2-6th to qualify

The worst thing about the win stat is the 5 inning minimum. It is intellectually inconsistent.