Tommy La Stella

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

2018 OPS

Fletcher: .678

LaStella: .672

LaStella is a good bench option don’t get me wrong, but Fletcher, in my opinion, won the spot based on his performance last year. Like a David Eckstien...

Except Eckstein would take a walk.  If you are limited in power then your best asset is to get on base, LaStella does it better. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Jeff Fletcher, did anyone take into account the number of walks Tommy LaStella received because he was batting in front of the pitcher?  I'd bet that if those walks were removed, the OBP would be a lot closer.  Shallow fly balls and weak groundouts by LaStella aren't very exciting.

In his career he has had 13 walks batting 8th, and batting 9th.  You’d have to assume a lot of those were when he was pinch hitting for the pitcher.  

[T.G.]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

This is not an issue you should be worked up about. 

Just wait till Upton comes off the DL... then you'll see some really irrational posts.

[AngelsFaninGA]

So let's see, a bench scrub vs. a fringey unproven minor leaguer. Maybe Eppler should try getting some better players so we don't keep having these arguments

[Lou]

35 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

2018 OPS

Fletcher: .678

LaStella: .672

LaStella is a good bench option don’t get me wrong, but Fletcher, in my opinion, won the spot based on his performance last year. Like a David Eckstien...

His performance was an ops of .006 higher than La Stella.

He's not going to be handed a job based on that.

[Lou]

Eck had an obp of .363 in 2002

Fletcher shouldn't be mentioned in the same conversation.

[HaloWay94]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

 

LaStella has. .709 OPS over nearly 1,000 major league PA’s. In 1500 minor league PAs its .842. Fletcher is .674 in 312 MLB PA’s and .743 in 1500 minor league PA’s.

There is no evidence that Fletcher is better than La Stella offensively.

Fletcher is better defensively but as we’ve seen the Angels can’t really afford to give up anything offensively right now. 

Also, the Angels have waaaaaaaay more information than any of you and this is the decision they made. They’re trying to win. They aren’t always right but they always always always always make the decision with more info than you or I have.

Both will play. If one separates himself, he’ll play more. 

This is not an issue you should be worked up about. 

You're right, Billy is our daddy and he knows best, we're stupid for questioning.

I'm not taking that BS.  Anyone who can't see the difference between Fletcher and La Stella's approach to the game has probably spent too much time with their head in a computer.  Even if I grant you that La Stella and Fletcher are even with the bat, Fletcher has defense that is far above average and brings an energy to the lineup by the way he plays the game.  He gets the little things right- Like putting the ball in play when the tying run is on instead of going down looking.... (La Stella) 

But all we can do is wait for Fletcher to prove he's more valuable just like he did with Valbuena.  

It's annoying because Fletcher deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt over this piece of work who threw a fit for being sent to AAA with the cubs. I'd release his ass without a second hearing.  What kind of message are sending if that's tolerable?

 

Sidenote...how are people not realizing that the stats of a pinch hitter cannot be compared to someone starting every day? La Stella's hitting statistics are mostly as a pinch hitter.  If we expect him to maintain those with 4 at bats a game.. we're fools.  

[Blarg]

3 minutes ago, HaloWay94 said:

Anyone who can't see the difference between Fletcher and La Stella's approach to the game has probably spent too much time with their head in a computer. 

Nailed it.

[HaloWay94]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Nailed it.

 

 

I know who Jeff Fletcher is... the point remains... many people are trying to outsmart the eye test and common sense by over analyzing numbers.

[Blarg]

Oh and by the way, @Jeff Fletcher you may want to bring along a suit on days you're going to be on television if you ever want to replace this guy on MLB Network.

[Blarg]

1 minute ago, HaloWay94 said:

 

I know who Jeff Fletcher is... the point remains... many people are trying to outsmart the eye test and common sense by over analyzing numbers.

Then you should know Jeff has way more eye testing than you. 

[HaloWay94]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

Then you should know Jeff has way more eye testing than you. 

 

You're right, Jeff and Billy know best, stupid me for disagreeing smh

I stand by my statements.  Jeff's logic hinges on an obsession over the OPS of a career pinch hitter vs. a solid rookie campaign.  Trust your eyes man.

 

[Blarg]

10 minutes ago, HaloWay94 said:

You're right, Jeff and Billy know best, stupid me for disagreeing smh

I stand by my statements.  Jeff's logic hinges on an obsession over the OPS of a career pinch hitter vs. a solid rookie campaign.  Trust your eyes man.

 

Go ahead and disagree, it's what the board is for. Personally I would prefer Fletcher at 2nd base over La Stella primarily by familiarity and he's the home grown talent. But, La Stella is a left handed bat with a history of a high OBP on a team with only one left handed bat in Calhoun.

That is probably part of the decision making process and, as Senior Fletch pointed out, performance is going to determine who gets more starts considering both have their flaws.

Another thought is once Ohtani comes back and inserts some power into the lineup from the left side there may be less interest in balancing the lineup and it can live with Fletcher and his lower OBP. The team, right now, is missing two parts of the offense with both Ohtani and Upton not on the roster. Without those two providing some power the Angels have to create scoring opportunities through getting guys on base and grinding out some hits. Getting on base being the primary need. 

[HaloWay94]

16 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Go ahead and disagree, it's what the board is for. Personally I would prefer Fletcher at 2nd base over La Stella primarily by familiarity and he's the home grown talent. But, La Stella is a left handed bat with a history of a high OBP on a team with only one left handed bat in Calhoun.

That is probably part of the decision making process and, as Senior Fletch pointed out, performance is going to determine who gets more starts considering both have their flaws.

Another thought is once Ohtani comes back and inserts some power into the lineup from the left side there may be less interest in balancing the lineup and it can live with Fletcher and his lower OBP. The team, right now, is missing two parts of the offense with both Ohtani and Upton not on the roster. Without those two providing some power the Angels have to create scoring opportunities through getting guys on base and grinding out some hits. Getting on base being the primary need. 

 

Totally agree with you there. And I'm especially with you on the homegrown talent as a reason I'm rooting for Fletch.

Our offense is pretty bleak without Ohtani and Upton, and we only have one lefty.  That's a good argument.   I guess where I disagree is whether La Stella will provide that OBP boost over Fletcher.  And if one more walk every 5 games is gonna be worth the loss on defense.  And I'm not anti-numbers, I just think it's easy to overthink these decisions and reduce the game to them.  OBP isn't a substance that enables you to break a slump or magically go from a pinch hitter to an everyday starter.  And it's certainly no indicator of future numbers.  La Stella could go .600 OPS this year or he could go .800 and the only way to make that prediction is the eye test in my opinion.  I think Fletch has a higher ceiling in that regard though others may disagree.  It also ticks me off that between two players who are very close in overall value, they go with the outside hire over the homegrown fan favorite for 3/4 games so far.

 

Don't mean to sound like mindless jerk.  It just seems like the mediocre vet is a recurring theme in angels management the last decade and it frustrates me @Jeff Fletcher

[Blarg]

Last year it was all about Scioscia, this season it's Eppler. 

[Stradling]

16 minutes ago, RBM said:

But Eppler already made a move. The wrong move IMO. He replaced Fletcher with La Stella. Fletcher was proficient last year. La Stella is a career bench player but Eppler decided he was suddenly a starting second baseman. Fletcher is probably more suited as a utility guy but he is much more capable than La Stella.

No, Eppler didn’t replace Fletcher with LaStella, they are both on the roster.  If we’re going to blame Scioscia then we should be blaming Ausmus if people believe blame is deserved. 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, HaloWay94 said:

You're right, Billy is our daddy and he knows best, we're stupid for questioning.

I'm not taking that BS.  Anyone who can't see the difference between Fletcher and La Stella's approach to the game has probably spent too much time with their head in a computer.  Even if I grant you that La Stella and Fletcher are even with the bat, Fletcher has defense that is far above average and brings an energy to the lineup by the way he plays the game.  He gets the little things right- Like putting the ball in play when the tying run is on instead of going down looking.... (La Stella) 

But all we can do is wait for Fletcher to prove he's more valuable just like he did with Valbuena.  

It's annoying because Fletcher deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt over this piece of work who threw a fit for being sent to AAA with the cubs. I'd release his ass without a second hearing.  What kind of message are sending if that's tolerable?

 

Sidenote...how are people not realizing that the stats of a pinch hitter cannot be compared to someone starting every day? La Stella's hitting statistics are mostly as a pinch hitter.  If we expect him to maintain those with 4 at bats a game.. we're fools.  

You don’t need a computer to figure out OBP you need a calculator. 

[HaloWay94]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No, Eppler didn’t replace Fletcher with LaStella, they are both on the roster.  If we’re going to blame Scioscia then we should be blaming Ausmus if people believe blame is deserved. 

Ausmus didn't sign La Stella.  And I don't hate Eppler, I'm eternally grateful for the Trout signing and I think Upton and Ohtani are huge achievements  as well.  But in the case of Cozart and La Stella, I think he made bad choices. 

Yes I know how OBP  is calculated.

 

But those numbers can't tell you if a guy is gonna come through with the game on the line or go from being a pinch hitter to a starter.  The eyes are important. And I think you lose more by having Fletch on the bench than having La Stella on the bench.  We also haven't seen what Fletcher can do.  He's played a half a season.  La Stella is a career bench player.

[HaloWay94]

Just now, RBM said:

No, instead they handed the job to a 30 year old career lefty pinch hitter with subpar defense who has averaged 147 PA's over the past four years. Makes no sense for Tommy La Stella to be one of 30 starting MLB second basemen IMO.

Preach

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, HaloWay94 said:

Ausmus didn't sign La Stella.  And I don't hate Eppler, I'm eternally grateful for the Trout signing and I think Upton and Ohtani are huge achievements  as well.  But in the case of Cozart and La Stella, I think he made bad choices. 

Yes I know how OBP  is calculated.

 

But those numbers can't tell you if a guy is gonna come through with the game on the line or go from being a pinch hitter to a starter.  The eyes are important. And I think you lose more by having Fletch on the bench than having La Stella on the bench.  We also haven't seen what Fletcher can do.  He's played a half a season.  La Stella is a career bench player.

Ok, so math won’t tell you if a player will perform but your eyes will, got it.  We have seen that Fletcher doesn’t like taking a walk, we have seen that in the majors during his short time and we saw it in the minors.  

[m0nkey]

Sorry, I'm not smart.  Are we blaming Tommy La Stella for the Angels being 1-3?

[Stradling]

Just now, m0nkey said:

Sorry, I'm not smart.  Are we blaming Tommy La Stella for the Angels being 1-3?

No, we are blaming Eppler, I think.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, HaloWay94 said:

Sidenote...how are people not realizing that the stats of a pinch hitter cannot be compared to someone starting every day? La Stella's hitting statistics are mostly as a pinch hitter.  If we expect him to maintain those with 4 at bats a game.. we're fools.  

You know, I'm all for giving Fletcher the opportunity to prove what he isn't capable of doing but FWIW -- if people are going to make comments like this the least they should do is make sure they fact support them.  La Stella's managed 954 at bats in his career, 159 of those as a PH.  In no way shape or form are his numbers "mostly as a pinch hitter".  The argument you should be pushing instead of making crap up is La Stella's career .672 OPS as a starter (632 abs).  That number is right in line with what Fletcher has put up (.678) over 284 at bats.   When you factor in the difference in defense, it makes for a much stronger argument.

Anyway IMO, people are putting too much weight into a handful of at bats and while Jeff Fletcher is correct that the Angels have more info than we do, starting La Stella over Fletcher .vs Marco Estrada was questionable IMO given the info WE DO have available to us.  RHBs have been crushing Estrada in recent seasons whereas he still is able to at least hold his own .vs LHB.   I was hoping the new smarter, more analytically inclined manager would do better than play to a pitcher's strengths.

 

[OCAngelsNotLAA]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

starting La Stella over Fletcher .vs Marco Estrada was questionable IMO

We had 3 hits opening day and La Stella had one of them.  To sit him the very next game might send the wrong message.  I would rather reward the players that perform than to stick to a strick platoon.  But then again, interupting that r throw from Kole to second could have garnered a benching on its own.

[T.G.]

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