This team is a pathetic sh** show.

[Dtwncbad]

I think all I said was I didn't like watching Kinsler and Calhoun clowning and laughing, complete with the acknowledgement that it means nothing.

Let me reset.  This team sucks and it is easy to be annoyed watching them.

[Amazing Larry]

I started watching less games. The writing was on the wall months ago. It is interesting watching the rah rah Scioscia c0ck gobblers slowly sink into reality though. 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I will say I was watching the dugout before the game with Calhoun and Kinsler clowning and laughing, and it bugged me.  I know a 10 second look at a couple of guys interacting is probably not a reliable indication of the team culture but the team just sucks so bad right now it bothered me to see them seemingly not caring and not looking like they were preparing to go take it to somebody.

Realistically this shit doesn't matter except we are the customers and we do draw conclusions from stuff we see.

Is it fair to the players?  Probably not.

But when you suck maybe look like you care?  A little?

 

I saw Trout smiling and winking at somebody in the 7th inning. The first thing I thought of was posts like this in previous years. 

Trout obviously doesn't care. 

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

I saw Trout smiling and winking at somebody in the 7th inning.

He just doesn't care. 

Trout can do whatever he wants.  He is not the reason this team is buried in the standings.

Calhoun and Kinsler?  Irrational as it might be, seeing those two clowning is annoying.  A very good portion of where this team sits in the standings is due to them.

We can argue if it makes any sense if you want.  I am just being real.

I found it annoying.  That's what losing does to your brain.

[Lou]

15 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

I started watching less games. The writing was on the wall months ago. It is interesting watching the rah rah Scioscia c0ck gobblers slowly sink into reality though. 

I still try and watch every game, but not all 9 innings. Last night I watched the first 2 and the 7th and 8th. I  don't watch because I think we're making the playoffs. I watch because I like the Angels and love watching Trout and Simmons play. 

I think what it all boils down to is that I'm a better fan than you 

[tdawg87]

This team is gayer than 5 dudes blowing 6 dudes

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Trout can do whatever he wants.  He is not the reason this team is buried in the standings.

Calhoun and Kinsler?  Irrational as it might be, seeing those two clowning is annoying.  A very good portion of where this team sits in the standings is due to them.

We can argue if it makes any sense if you want.  I am just being real.

I found it annoying.  That's what losing does to your brain.

no, he can't do what he wants. he is a team leader and every player looks up to him. he needs to lead by example. 

[Blarg]

31 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I think all I said was I didn't like watching Kinsler and Calhoun clowning and laughing, complete with the acknowledgement that it means nothing.

Let me reset.  This team sucks and it is easy to be annoyed watching them.

Every team clowns and has a good time in between plays or innings, regardless of standings. What a fucked up sport it would be if they all had that teeth grinding look all of the time. 

Agreed that the team sucks. 

[Dtwncbad]

8 minutes ago, Lou said:

no, he can't do what he wants. he is a team leader and every player looks up to him. he needs to lead by example. 

Ok you can blame Trout for other playing sucking.  I will blame the players that suck.

[fan_since79]

I keep watching for the moment when Trout breaks out of his month-long slump. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

That's fine but what about next year?  Are you really going to be capable of being optimistic about next year if the changes are things like having Ward over Valbuena?   Or the Angels get Shoemaker back to replace Richards in the rotation?

These kinds of changes are not going to make a difference.  Help in actual wins and losses FOR NEXT SEASON is not coming out of the minors or off the DL.  I think that's delusional.

I know the Angels got burned by Pujols and Hamilton.  But one was old and one was a drug addict.

The Angels need to go get a Machado, make a deal for a front line starter, and somehow build a bullpen.

Otherwise we are having this same conversation next July.

While I agree with the latter part of your statement, I don't agree with the first part.

Everyone talks about Max Muncy. There are always guys like him. Josh Donaldson was like that. How do you know what you have if you don't give them a shot? How can any of us legitimately say whether or not having Ward, Thaiss, etc makes us more optimistic than having Valbuena when we all have no clue how they will perform? That's why they need to play now. 

I mean look at the Astros.  They are trotting Kyle Tucker out there Every.Single.Day. I know Kyle Tucker is one of the top prospects in baseball, but they don't need him right now. They are trying to hold their top spot in the division and vye for home field advantage but here they are going on 14 games in a row of having his .162 average and .468 OPS in the lineup because they realize how important it is to give these guys a real shot at the Major league level.

[Dtwncbad]

10 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

While I agree with the latter part of your statement, I don't agree with the first part.

Everyone talks about Max Muncy. There are always guys like him. Josh Donaldson was like that. How do you know what you have if you don't give them a shot? How can any of us legitimately say whether or not having Ward, Thaiss, etc makes us more optimistic than having Valbuena when we all have no clue how they will perform? That's why they need to play now. 

I mean look at the Astros.  They are trotting Kyle Tucker out there Every.Single.Day. I know Kyle Tucker is one of the top prospects in baseball, but they don't need him right now. They are trying to hold their top spot in the division and vye for home field advantage but here they are going on 14 games in a row of having his .162 average and .468 OPS in the lineup because they realize how important it is to give these guys a real shot at the Major league level.

No argument that miracles happen.

It's just not a good plan to count on it.

I think you make moves to stack the team and then when a miracle happens it puts you over the top.

I would not be comfortable with a plan where we need to wish Ward or Thaiss are suddenly high impact major leaguers.

This team needs another high impact bat and a front line starter and an entire bullpen.  Those solutions (at least for 2019 anyway) are most likely not coming from the minors or off the DL.

[Griffey's Corner]

14 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

While I agree with the latter part of your statement, I don't agree with the first part.

Everyone talks about Max Muncy. There are always guys like him. Josh Donaldson was like that. How do you know what you have if you don't give them a shot? How can any of us legitimately say whether or not having Ward, Thaiss, etc makes us more optimistic than having Valbuena when we all have no clue how they will perform? That's why they need to play now. 

I mean look at the Astros.  They are trotting Kyle Tucker out there Every.Single.Day. I know Kyle Tucker is one of the top prospects in baseball, but they don't need him right now. They are trying to hold their top spot in the division and vye for home field advantage but here they are going on 14 games in a row of having his .162 average and .468 OPS in the lineup because they realize how important it is to give these guys a real shot at the Major league level.

I think there is a balance. It's important to give players a chance and give them a good fair chance so they are not looking over there shoulder all the time. But at the same time understanding that most prospects fail.... and probably with the position players enjoying the benefits of playing in Salt Lake.... that even a higher percentage of them will fail when they are not playing in such a hitter's park.

[Dtwncbad]

I would be thrilled if the Angels were so offensively stacked that playing a guy hitting .162 didn't hurt them.

Can you see how vastly different this is compared to the Angels having 4 or 5 bad spots on the lineup and foolishly believing that promoting 3 or 4 bodies is going to adequately fix those problems, especially when the group we are talking about (the 2019 ready players) have never been considered great prospects.

[Lou]

37 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Ok you can blame Trout for other playing sucking.  I will blame the players that suck.

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I would be thrilled if the Angels were so offensively stacked that playing a guy hitting .162 didn't hurt them.

Can you see how vastly different this is compared to the Angels having 4 or 5 bad spots on the lineup and foolishly believing that promoting 3 or 4 bodies is going to adequately fix those problems, especially when the group we are talking about (the 2019 ready players) have never been considered great prospects.

So, leave these guys in the minor leagues because in a season that is already lost they could possible do worse than Marte and Valbuena. What in the fuck went wrong with you as a fan that you wouldn't want to see these guys get a chance?

If they just play league average it is a huge upgrade over what is stumbling out on the field now. Marte 42 OPS+ Valbuena 64 OPS+. Even as bad as Cowart was last season in his call up he posted an 82 OPS+ and played tremendous defensively.

 

[Lou]

Trout in late & close situations:

.163 BA

.689 OPS
 

[Blarg]

We should have listened to that guy that said the Angels should have traded Trout for a bullpen years ago. Now we can't get Salas for him.

[Lou]

40 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

I keep watching for the moment when Trout breaks out of his month-long slump. 

don't you dare criticize Mikey!!!

[Dtwncbad]

9 minutes ago, Lou said:

Trout in late & close situations:

.163 BA

.689 OPS
 

Is this in a 4-4 game after he has two doubles and a walk to account for 3 of the 4 runs the team has score in innings 1-6?

Late and close is stupid.  A three run homer in the first inning is just as clutch.

When a guy knocks in 3 runs early and then grounds out in the eighth in a 3-3 tie I am supposed to think he is failing even though he is the guy that already knocked in the 3 runs?

[Angel Oracle]

Seems that the entire team can't get it done in the late innings.

[AngelsFanSince86]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

No argument that miracles happen.

It's just not a good plan to count on it.

I think you make moves to stack the team and then when a miracle happens it puts you over the top.

I would not be comfortable with a plan where we need to wish Ward or Thaiss are suddenly high impact major leaguers.

This team needs another high impact bat and a front line starter and an entire bullpen.  Those solutions (at least for 2019 anyway) are most likely not coming from the minors or off the DL.

It's not miracles.  This is something that happens with multiple players every single year.  Donaldson is an extreme example.  I'm not talking about planning on these guys for next year.  The point is to give them a shot now when the team is nowhere near contention so you can see how they fare.  If one or more shows they are legit wouldn't it be better to know that before going into the offseason so you can better determine your depth and what needs to be addressed?  You certainly need more than a handful of games to see if someone is legit.  If they don't bring them up soon and really give them a shot then I agree with you.  What if Ward is brought up this week and just does well the rest of the season?  Do you feel comfortable with him at 3B for next season?

2 hours ago, Griffey's Corner said:

I think there is a balance. It's important to give players a chance and give them a good fair chance so they are not looking over there shoulder all the time. But at the same time understanding that most prospects fail.... and probably with the position players enjoying the benefits of playing in Salt Lake.... that even a higher percentage of them will fail when they are not playing in such a hitter's park.

 

Right...so how do we know if they will fail or not?  Now is a great time to test the waters.  There's no way of knowing which ones (if any) will pan out so in a lost season why not give them all a shot (the ones that are in AAA)?  The guys they would be replacing at the MLB level are already providing negative value so whats the harm?

 

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I would be thrilled if the Angels were so offensively stacked that playing a guy hitting .162 didn't hurt them.

Can you see how vastly different this is compared to the Angels having 4 or 5 bad spots on the lineup and foolishly believing that promoting 3 or 4 bodies is going to adequately fix those problems, especially when the group we are talking about (the 2019 ready players) have never been considered great prospects.

 

I think you are missing the point.  Clearly the chances of all those guys panning out and filling all those holes is essentially 0%.  But maybe one or two could be filled.  We need to know that BEFORE next year.  I brought up the Astros because they are a team that could actually be hurt by having a prospect come up.  He is not helping their lineup at all and yet they continue to give him a chance.  The Angels have a bunch of veteran scrubs in their lineup.  These guys are contributing nothing and the Angels playoff chances are essentially gone.  Why are you opposed to giving these guys a shot NOW (not 2019) so that we can see if some of them can produce?

Edited July 25, 2018 by AngelsFanSince86

[Dtwncbad]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

So, leave these guys in the minor leagues because in a season that is already lost they could possible do worse than Marte and Valbuena. What in the F*ck went wrong with you as a fan that you wouldn't want to see these guys get a chance?

If they just play league average it is a huge upgrade over what is stumbling out on the field now. Marte 42 OPS+ Valbuena 64 OPS+. Even as bad as Cowart was last season in his call up he posted an 82 OPS+ and played tremendous defensively.

 

Where on earth are you getting the idea I dont want to see what these can do?  Find one post of mine anywhere that has said anything remotely close to that.

I have said that I am not optimist the 2019 answer to the team not sucking is likely in the form of the graduating class about to be in the majors.

I have said it seems more likely that they need to acquire a high impact player and then use the graduating bodies to fill in around the better players.

How you got that I don't want to graduate players and play them is a mystery.

 

[70runner]

Nothing much will change with this team until someone deals directly with the 10yr contract crew.  Bring up the kids...they will sit while Pujols plays.  Bring in more talent...Scioscia will still pencil in the MOTO stiff that is Pujols.   You say there isn't a better alternative?...Simmons, Ohtani, nearly every available free agent, past and present.  Pujols has been among the worst players in MLB for 2yrs, yet Scioscia, like clockwork, stations mang in the MOTO.  He turns doubles into singles, can't run, and regularly gets thrown out at first from the outfield.  I said it before the season started, the Angels won't reach the playoffs with this stiff in the MOTO.   Mang isn't the only issue for sure, but the 10 contract crew is an impediment to fielding a younger, more energetic, more athletic baseball team.  Just hope something is done before Trout bolts to the far east.

 

[AngelsFanSince86]

25 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Where on earth are you getting the idea I dont want to see what these can do?  Find one post of mine anywhere that has said anything remotely close to that.

I have said that I am not optimist the 2019 answer to the team not sucking is likely in the form of the graduating class about to be in the majors.

I have said it seems more likely that they need to acquire a high impact player and then use the graduating bodies to fill in around the better players.

How you got that I don't want to graduate players and play them is a mystery.

 

I think its because people keep saying to graduate them and you keep saying something along the lines of, "I don't want to count on that".  Clearly we can't count on anything that is an unknown.  That is why these guys need to be given a shot.  Clearly it's going to take more than our minor league depth to compete.  

It is going to take a mix of both though.  It would have been nice to have Cron at first, but that ship has sailed.  So now we have to hope one of our minor league guys can hit because the FA market for 1B is pretty weak.  Between Fletcher and Cozart we would have 2B and 3B somewhat covered, but they need someone else preferably with more power.  If Ward can produce it would go a long way towards solidifying the infield.  Then there is RF.  Kole has figured it out it seems, but it is probably worth it to upgrade.  Harper? AJ Pollock?

There isn't much in the way of front line SP except maybe Keuchel.  RP can be had but likely for a decent price.

For me, to have confidence in 2019, the Angels need one of Thaiss, Ward, or Rengifo to show they can produce at the MLB level.  On top of that they need to sign one proven, veteran SP that doesn't have 1500+ IP in his career.  They also need a closer (Kimbrel would be awesome) and one or two other RP.  They also need to sign Harper (unless he's still demanding over his real value), Machado if he'll play 3B, or even Pollock who is a more consistent hitter than Kole and is also a GG caliber CFer.  And then they could move Kole to fill in depth somewhere.  If he keeps up his resurgence for the rest of the season then he will have a fair amount of value.

However, part of this all coming together is having one of our minor league guys contribute.  

Edit:  Also note Cron's numbers in Tampa Bay.  He's been what most thought he could be.  Angels just never let him play it out.  They sent him down every time he struggled.  What kind of message does that send the minor leaguers?  For a game that is so mental you should instill confidence in your young guys.  The veterans are the ones who need the stern message of "produce or get out".  This organization has everything flip flopped.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by AngelsFanSince86