Dump Valbuena

[DMVol]

17 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I don't see how Pujols is better than Valbuena. It isn't 4 years ago. I'm not sure Cron is either. And Cowart isn't in the same league as Valbuena offensively.

I don't think either Pujols (2017 version) or Valbuena is a very good hitter....Cowart hasn't done anything so he isn't even in the discussion.....I'd rather have Cron than Valbuena in a vacuum but Valbuena can play 1st and 3rd and he's a lefty so I'd probably rather have Valbuena, though I don't think he is any good....I get using other stats besides BA but when you hit .176 for a month, you aren't giving yourself much of a chance to be a good hitter, by any measure (or stat)...

[Warfarin]

I don't understand why there's such a huge desire to get rid of Valbuena.  He's signed for just one more year, with an option for next year.  Remember, players who enter their free agency years tend to be a bit more "motivated."  He also provides versatility for us, as he can man both 1B and 3B.  Yes, he's not a star or even above average, but he provides versatility and a power lefty bat, something we currently need.  If someone gives us a good trade for him, then by all means go for it, but I think it's silly to just dump him for nothing.  If he doesn't play well again this year, we can DFA him mid-way through the year, but I don't see the need to jettison him right now.

[Dick Enberg]

my oh my - he is the only one we have who has any kind of bat flip! We need Luis for that ability alone!

 

[Ohtaniland]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The guy had a better OPS in the 2nd half than Cron, Moustakas and Logan Morrison.  I don’t know how much he will be starting but if everyone is healthy I’d expect him to start 20 games at 3rd, and 70 games at 1st.  Unless Cron is still here.  Valbuena without Cron will start nearly every game at 1st that Ohtani isn’t DHing, so roughly 3 times a week.  

If Ohtani turns out to be a high OBP guy it’s going to be tough to sit him for Albert. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, OHTANILAND said:

If Ohtani turns out to be a high OBP guy it’s going to be tough to sit him for Albert. 

It won’t be sitting him for Albert, it will be keeping him healthy with fresh legs so he can be best utilized on the mound.  Please don’t make this about Albert’s playing time.  Ohtani has nothing to do with that.  

[DMVol]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

....Please don’t make this about Albert’s playing time.  Ohtani has nothing to do with that.  

Hypothetically, let's say Ohtani struggles some as a pitcher but knocks the cover off the ball as a hitter.....And Pujols doesn't adjust well to playing 1b again....Then would it have something to do with Ohtani's playing time?...hypothetical only....

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, OHTANILAND said:

If Valbuena starts anywhere near 80 games this season something has drastically gone wrong. Valbuena should only spot start, pinch hit or relieve as a defensive replacement late in games. 

If Pujols plays 1B on the days Valbuena DH's, that'll likely slot Valbuena for around 100 games at 1B...maybe more. 

[Stradling]

30 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Hypothetically, let's say Ohtani struggles some as a pitcher but knocks the cover off the ball as a hitter.....And Pujols doesn't adjust well to playing 1b again....Then would it have something to do with Ohtani's playing time?...hypothetical only....

Then Ohtani would probably play some first base. 

[tdawg87]

2 hours ago, DMVol said:

He hit .212 in August......and .176 in Sept, when we were trying to make the Wild Card....

http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/29246/luis-valbuena

6 homers and an .865 OPS in August. He was one of our best hitters that month.

5 homers and a respectable .767 OPS in Sept/Oct.

Try again.

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

3 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

Because Cozart starts at 3B, but can play SS and 2B in reserve, and because the Angels intend to deploy a 6 man rotation, this makes a 3 man bench a likelihood. 

I think the plan will be to have 5 main starters 2 more starters with either options or bullpen arms to make spot starts on weeks without a day off. I think we carry 4 bench players for the most part, I guess we will see who is right come April.

[Warfarin]

Valbuena has definite utility for us.  He is a complementary player who we can use at either corner AND has LH power / plate discipline.  Great teams need complementary guys like Valbuena who can serve different roles.  If we had him for three more years, I can see people bemoaning his presence, but he's only guaranteed one more season.  If he performs poorly, we can just DFA him and move on.  No need to move on him from him now - keep him around and see how he starts the year.

[HaloNArizona]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Valbuena has definite utility for us.  He is a complementary player who we can use at either corner AND has LH power / plate discipline.  Great teams need complementary guys like Valbuena who can serve different roles.  If we had him for three more years, I can see people bemoaning his presence, but he's only guaranteed one more season.  If he performs poorly, we can just DFA him and move on.  No need to move on him from him now - keep him around and see how he starts the year.

Bingo...Valbuena is a bench player, nothing more nothing less.  He needs to fill a need.  Back up Corner IF and LH bat.  

[Troll Daddy]

6 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

6 homers and an .865 OPS in August. He was one of our best hitters that month.

5 homers and a respectable .767 OPS in Sept/Oct.

Try again.

 

I take more stock in the batting averages for August and September. He’s power numbers were awesome but hardly sustainable batting.200

I personally have no problem starting the season with Valbuena on the bench. Hopefully Valbuena proves us all wrong. 

[totdprods]

2 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

I'd like to see the Angels acquire Jurickson Profar, who can play 3B, SS, 2B, and the OF, and then trade Valbuena and hang onto Cron to handle 1B for those 100 or so games.

You and I have both been on the Cron for Profar trade for awhile now. Makes a lot of sense.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

I take more stock in the batting averages for August and September. He’s power numbers were awesome but hardly sustainable batting.200

That makes zero sense but ok.

[totdprods]

Valbuena has never been a high BA guy. Hell, he's barely even been an average BA guy. As long as he's walking and clubbing HRs, he's doing his job, and he did that in spades last year. 

I expected him to hit around .230 and he fell well short of that, but I also expected Kole to hit better than .244. BA isn't a good tool to measure a player's contribution. Everyone griped at how hollow Yunel's .300 was.

[eaterfan]

Over the last 4 seasons:

Valbuena OPS+

115, 106, 125, 95.

Cron OPS+

111, 106, 116, 99.

They are virtually identical. Maybe a slight edge to LV overall, but slight edge to Cron for recency. That being said, why not keep the left handed bat with positional versatility?

[Troll Daddy]

11 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

That makes zero sense but ok.

I’m shocked 

Why don’t you list all the players who batted .200 w/.800 OPS 

[Ohtaniland]

35 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Then Ohtani would probably play some first base. 

There is no way that Ohtani plays first base. He’s a pitcher / DH that has already expressed that he would rather not even play in the outfield. It would be a huge liability to put Ohtani at first base when he’s never played there. Remember when we put Trumbo at 3rd?

[tdawg87]

 

3 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’m shocked 

Why don’t you list all the players who batted .200 w/.800 OPS 

Valbuena in September.

I know what you're trying to argue but you said you value average more in August and September, which again makes zero sense. If you're arguing about sample sizes then why do you care of it's sustainable?

[eaterfan]

I think the odds of Ohtani being such a bad pitcher and such a good hitter that he's moved to permanent DH are about as good as my chances to become the permanent DH.

He will have to really stink for the Angels to give up on him as a pitcher. I'd imagine they give him at least a year or two to work it out on the mound. If he's such a good hitter that his bar plays they may take an off season or send him down to the minors to learn a position. He has the speed for it.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

There is no way that Ohtani plays first base. He’s a pitcher / DH that has already expressed that he would rather not even play in the outfield. It would be a huge liability to put Ohtani at first base when he’s never played there. Remember when we put Trumbo at 3rd?

1b is basically DH.  I never suggested he play the outfield.  Yes I remember Trumbo at third.  

By the way, I think he will DH, and I think he will DH 2-3 Times a week.  I don’t think Albert will have any bearing on whether Ohtani DHs or not.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

I don't think either Pujols (2017 version) or Valbuena is a very good hitter....Cowart hasn't done anything so he isn't even in the discussion.....I'd rather have Cron than Valbuena in a vacuum but Valbuena can play 1st and 3rd and he's a lefty so I'd probably rather have Valbuena, though I don't think he is any good....I get using other stats besides BA but when you hit .176 for a month, you aren't giving yourself much of a chance to be a good hitter, by any measure (or stat)...

Cowart may not hit more HR than Valbuena but I'm sure he can hit .199. There is no question which one is the better defender. If keeping Valbuena just because he is LF and can play 1B and 3B, then Cowart would be better as a Utility IF. He can play 3B, 2B, some 1B, and even OF in a pinch. He is faster than Valbuena on the bases also. Cron should be the everyday 1B as he can hit better RHP than LHP and hits both better than Luis.

I know it will be a long shot to trade Valbuena so I guessing we keep him and Cron with Cowart in AAA until someone becomes injured.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I think the odds of Ohtani being such a bad pitcher and such a good hitter that he's moved to permanent DH are about as good as my chances to become the permanent DH.

He will have to really stink for the Angels to give up on him as a pitcher. I'd imagine they give him at least a year or two to work it out on the mound. If he's such a good hitter that his bar plays they may take an off season or send him down to the minors to learn a position. He has the speed for it.

And if he became a permanent hitter instead of a pitcher then he would be an outfielder.  At that point there’s no reason not to use him in the outfield.  

This really is a silly conversation.  

[tdawg87]

This entire thread is a turd.