The Last Jedi (Spoiler Alert: Red wants you to know you're dumb if you jump into this thread without having seen the film.)

[cez]

9 hours ago, The Dude said:

Yeah but we got Vader 2.0 and Sidious 2.0 and Rebels v Empire 2.0. Wouldnt have killed them to give Luke a decent send off considering these are most likely the last movies we'll ever see Luke in.

obi wan's end was becoming one with the force to literally save the rebellion, leaving the last jedi behind. 

luke essentially did a variation on that, and on a much larger scale. i liked the symmetry. i would've been fine with a big lighsaber battle or something, too, but the literary side of me liked it.  

the whole middle part of the movie was a contrivance to me....seemed like they couldn't figure out how to give finn good screen time, so they threw in a badly written side story about what might have happened to him if he became a mercenary like del toro's character. it was a half hour i could've done without. surely there could've been a better way to get him onto the enemy ship to battle phasma, which was pretty fun. 

 

 

[The Dude]

I get what both of you are saying, it was a cool symmetry to Obi as well as an awesome display of Force ability like none before. The expectations were sky high for Lukes return and i feel like the dropped the ball big time. Imgaine how great it would have been for Luke to impart lasting knowlegde on Rey about the force and the failures of the Old Republic Jedi order. Really expand on what the force is all about in a more detail. You know actual training. They gave us so little of anything.  We got grumpy Luke for the whole movie and his death in the last couple minutes.

Dont even get me started on Finn, what a let down. Before TFA i was really hoping Rey and Finn would become Luke new Jedi students. After that movie i figure that ship had sailed, but he might still go on the become something great and yet here we are two movies in and he really hasnt done much of anything.

Thats the theme of the trilogy...wasted potential.

[Thomas]

31 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 Imgaine how great it would have been for Luke to impart lasting knowlegde on Rey about the force and the failures of the Old Republic Jedi order. 

There is a symmetry there. Rey has been constantly let down by father/mentor figures. Actual father. Remarkably failed. Han Solo, fail. Luke, fail. Kylo, fail. Her antagonist is in a similar boat. Han Solo (again), fail. Luke (again), fail. Snoke, fail. Snoke did an obvious piss poor job training Kylo because he just didn't care that much. Why would he. He saw Kylo simply as a means of getting to who he'd assumed was Luke. He saw Luke as the only meaningful threat left to the First Order. Then when that failed he saw Rey as that means of getting to Luke since that task was clearly beyond Kylo's ability. So we're left in this interesting state where both Kylo and Rey are both ill-prepared for the roles they have been placed in but both are utterly alone.  Rey will at least likely have help from the force ghosts of previous Jedi masters though how much is hardly certain. I'd assume it'll be likely that another villain will reveal themself in the next movie. Kylo I don't think himself is a credible enough threat to based a film on.

48 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Really expand on what the force is all about in a more detail.

I thought the film did the best of any of the films in this regard. 

[gotbeer]

The Fin thing was just horrible.  I still don't know what he is supposed to be.  Because for a janitor, he sure can do anything, including using a lightsaber, fighting hand to hand, defeating the captain of the guards, piloting a ship, and knowing the schematics to all things imperial..  And I agree, that whole going to the planet thing was just a waste.  Although the horse thing was kind of cool.  

[Thomas]

15 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

The Fin thing was just horrible.  I still don't know what he is supposed to be.  Because for a janitor, he sure can do anything, including using a lightsaber, fighting hand to hand, defeating the captain of the guards, piloting a ship, and knowing the schematics to all things imperial..  And I agree, that whole going to the planet thing was just a waste.  Although the horse thing was kind of cool.  

Yeah, though that might be more a sin of the first movie for not hashing out his origin more. I think it'd be easy enough to explain. After he was "recruited" into the storm troopers as a kid he excelled in all aspects while being trained but because of personality issues was eventually relegated to janitor duty. 

[Blarg]

I'm at the theater now. Maybe I'll open the spoilers tags as it goes on to see if you guys are full of crap. 

[Blarg]

After the movie was over I asked my wife how she liked it. She rated it Meh.

[Tank]

i think we're going to try and see it on Christmas day.

then i can spend Christmas night re-reading this thread and (finally) all of the spoilers.

[Blarg]

I'll let you in on a little secret about the spoilers.

Spoiler

They are discussing the next season of Game of Thrones.

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

The movie was good but not great and it felt a bit long.  As someone else mentioned it's a setup for the third movie and once I can put it context of being part of the completed trilogy maybe I'll like it more.

Spoiler

As far as Rey being powerful quick I look at it as balance in the force because you have light and darkness and can't have one without the other.  On one side you have Snoke and Kylo and on the other you have Luke who for the longest time had shut himself off from the force while Rey balanced the scale.  My biggest gripe is the same thing I said about The Force Awakens - the main antagonist is some whiny kid.  When Vader force choked someone or threatened them it always felt cold and calculating and that he was in control while Kylo's anger always seems to get the better of him.  At the end when he wanted Luke dead and he was screaming at them to fire he comes off as some angst filled teenager but before that in Snoke's chamber he pulled off the villain better.  I realize he's supposed to be conflicted but he's just come off differently from Vader, the Emperor and Snoke.  Once Anakin turned in the prequels he was ready to kill anyone without hesitation whether it was the younglings, Obi-Won or any other jedi.  Hopefully that's what Kylo is in the third movie because it seems like he's past the whole join me and we can rule while she's past trying to save him.

 

[red321]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:28 AM, gotbeer said:

I don't know.  Projecting yourself across the galaxy (like we've seen no jedi do before), and showing up the empire, giving hope to the rebels and showing that you are the jedi legend that people across the galaxy will rally around, all while saving your sister.  That's a pretty good sendoff.

Yep

[Tank]

On 12/15/2017 at 4:26 PM, Chimi said:

 

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Thats why I said let’s see what happens in Episode 9 before judging this movie. We really don’t know what’s going to happen with Luke. I feel they are already doing something different with Luke than what we’ve seen before. Luke projecting himself through the Force is something we haven’t seen before. Let’s see what he can do in death.  I keep thinking of what Obi-Wan said in ANH.  Strike me down and I’ll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. Wonder if that has any truth with Luke also.

 

Spoiler

a reasonable complaint, chimi. luke never finished his jedi training (remember that he ran off to help his friends) yet was proficient as a fighter. now it happens that rey does the same thing? meh, try a different approach, boys.

 

[Tank]

On 12/15/2017 at 4:43 PM, Thomas said:

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 Ben was the closest thing he'd ever have to a son and his sister and best friend's son. There were other trainees as well at the temple. This was his chance to rebuild the Jedi Order. And he feels like he blew it. He watched Ben be seduced by the dark side and there was nothing he could do. This would be enough to cause most people to collapse emotionally. 

 

Spoiler

okay, i need help here. they kept referring to "ben" in this movie, but it seemed pretty clear they meant kylo ren and not obi wan. clearly, i must have missed something. why did they keep saying "ben"?

 

[gotbeer]

4 minutes ago, Tank said:

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okay, i need help here. they kept referring to "ben" in this movie, but it seemed pretty clear they meant kylo ren and not obi wan. clearly, i must have missed something. why did they keep saying "ben"?

 

Spoiler

Kylo Ren's non sith name is Ben Solo.  

 

[Tank]

On 12/15/2017 at 4:43 PM, The Dude said:

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Fair point, i guess im just letting my disappointment could my judgement here. It's possible especailly now that Carrie is gone that he might have a big role to play in 9. I willing to give it a chance. 

ETA: Speaking of the projection scene, i found it strange that he appeared younger and with Anakins saber. I wonder why that was? if it has any kind of story significance or was just a choice by Johnson.

 

Spoiler

yeah, the darker beard was the first thing i notice, plus the lightsaber, which had just been destroyed by rey and kylo. it was a giveaway that something was not what it seemed. i admit that i liked luke's snakiness in that scene, too.

 

[Tank]

On 12/21/2017 at 8:52 PM, tdawg87 said:

It was good, not great. 

Luke was great though. I think people expected him to be Yoda 2.0 and be this absolute badass, but I was happy they didn't go that route. His redemption arc is more badass than anything he could have done with a lightsaber.

i like the way luke dealt with kylo at the end. the whole projection thing was really interesting to me.

[Tank]

On 12/22/2017 at 12:18 PM, The Dude said:

Really expand on what the force is all about in a more detail. 

 

On 12/22/2017 at 1:09 PM, Thomas said:

I thought the film did the best of any of the films in this regard. 

after TFA, i thought at least one of these final two films needs to be about the force and where it comes from/what it is/how people connect to it. i still feel that way. maybe it'll end up being one of the "in between" films like Rogue One or the upcoming Han Solo movie.

[Tank]

Spoiler

can someone explain the golden dice thing to me? i don't remember them from The Force Awakens and figured they just fell off of The Millenium Falcon's rearview mirror.

 

[tdawg87]

I think it's a lame tie-in to the Han Solo spinoff. It's not in any other Star Wars film.

[gotbeer]

5 hours ago, Tank said:

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can someone explain the golden dice thing to me? i don't remember them from The Force Awakens and figured they just fell off of The Millenium Falcon's rearview mirror.

 

Spoiler

From what I read, this was more of a nerd thing than a well known thing.  In the original Star Wars, in the cockpit of the falcon, in like one of the corners, there hung a pair of gold dice.  It was in the first film, and dissapeared, and then reappeared in other films.  I don't think it was ever addressed specifically in films, or if this was a book thing, or just a made up nerd thing.  So the story goes, that Han won the Falcon using those dice, so they were his lucky dice.  

 

[Tank]

ah, okay. that makes a lot of sense.

as someone else said, maybe it's a lead-in for the han solo movie.

[Blarg]

It should have been fuzzy dice. 

[Tank]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

It should have been fuzzy dice. 

then that would have made him Han Cholo.

[Blarg]

That was brilliance and everyone reading this thread needs to like that. Those who don't are obviously cat lovers. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Sonovabitch. Last time i checked in here, everything was still hidden. Now i read the plot twists. 

Only saving grace is ill forget the spoilers by the time this comes on showtime a year from now and i finally watch it.