Angels roster could change a lot before 2018

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

It just annoys me that someone, who makes even John Goodman's Babe Ruth circa 1935 look like Billy Hamilton on the bases, could potentially play these next 4 seasons.   Is Pujols not sufficiently embarrassed for himself to be thrown out at 1B from LF? 

Personally I think Albert and the Angels are going to give him one more full season as DH. 

As of now, it looks like Albert is actually going to have his first offseason as an Angel where he won't be undergoing and recovering from surgery. That's kept him from doing much to keep in shape in years' past. I'm hoping he's sensitive enough to how slow he's gotten and how poor his season has, and with health on his side for this winter for the first time in ages, he takes advantage of it, and I think the Angels will give him that opportunity. 

If we're seeing sub .700 Pujols halfway through '18, I do think we'll start to see guys like Valbuena and Cron or Thaiss start to pluck away a start here or there. If it gets real bad, I could see the Angels start to see '19 as a DH platoon or even a bench power-hitting PH if he's really suffering. At that point, I think Pujols starts to consider retiring. And I do think he will retire with a year or two remaining if the numbers are that bad. It'll be one more 'selfless good guy' act to cement his legacy. That $50-60m remaining won't mean much to him at that point.

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

L- Calhoun

R- Trout

R- Upton

L - Hosmer

R- Pujols

L- Moustakas

R- Kendrick

R- Maldonado

R- Simmons

Richards, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Ramirez, Alvarez, Paredes, Guerra, Ramirez, Wood, Middleton, Bedrosian.

[greginpsca]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Richards, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Ramirez, Alvarez, Paredes, Guerra, Ramirez, Wood, Middleton, Bedrosian.

No Bridwell?

[fan_since79]

17 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

It just annoys me that someone, who makes even John Goodman's Babe Ruth circa 1935 look like Billy Hamilton on the bases, could potentially play these next 4 seasons.   Is Pujols not sufficiently embarrassed for himself to be thrown out at 1B from LF? 

If he does stagger through these next four years, he'll no doubt pass Mays at 660 home runs, while putting the GIDP career record totally out of reach. I can see a 2018-21 OBP in the .260 neighborhood. His 93 strikeouts are the most since his rookie year, while his 37 walks are the lowest ever.

Look at his OPS this year. Steep decline, more than a hundred points lower. OPS+ the last four years: 126, 118, 113, 81.

He's really close to being finished.

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by fan_since79

[Hubs]

6 minutes ago, Hubs said:

L- Calhoun

R- Trout

R- Upton

L - Hosmer

R- Pujols

L- Moustakas

R- Kendrick

R- Maldonado

R- Simmons

 

 

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Richards, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Ramirez, Alvarez, Paredes, Guerra, Ramirez, Wood, Middleton, Bedrosian.

You forgot Parker, and Petit, our two top pitchers by WAR, who I think they'll resign (Parker is arb eligible and Petit is a free agent). And Meyer and Bridwell as rotation guys. But good.

And Bench of Valbuena, Cowart, Graterol, Revere? Cron can be swapped for pitching or a 2b if we don't think Kendrick is

 

It's a 200 Million Dollar Payroll, but it's also a 95 win team.

[Angel Oracle]

Acquire Hernandez (around .370 OBP since 2016) from the Phillies for Skaggs, sign Chatwood and Moose, keep Upton, re-sign Petit, and sign a solid lefty reliever. 

S- Hernandez, R- Trout, R- Upton, L- Moose, R- Pujols, L- Calhoun, R- Simmons, R-Cron, R- Maldonado

R-GRich, R-Chatwood, R-Shoe, R-Bridwell, L-Heaney; with R- JC Ramirez waiting to return  

R-Parker, R-Petit, R-Bedrosian, R-Middleton, L-new lefty, R-N. Ramirez, clean peanut

 

[totdprods]

Just now, greginpsca said:

No Bridwell?

Hard to say - as it stands right now, Heaney, Skaggs, J.C. Ramirez, and Richards all have to be on the 25-man roster. They're out of options, and that's 4/5ths of a rotation right there. 

J.C. Ramirez did a pretty damn good job this season - I think I read that he posted around the same number of 6+ IP, 2 run or less games as guys who most consider 'aces'. He's probably earned a spot in the rotation next year - if he's healthy. We will definitely need help in the pen, and he could shift back there. 

Bridwell has minor league options still, so I could see him, unfortunately, starting the year in SLC because of that reason. The org may value him staying stretched out in the rotation at AAA in case anyone gets hurt, rather than being turned back into a reliever in the pen. Shoemaker also has a minor league option, so he could find himself in SLC....but he also has the veteran card over Bridwell. 

For these reasons, I actually think we could see Eppler shopping one of Heaney, Skaggs, Ramirez, or Shoemaker this year. Even Bridwell. And even more so if we wind up signing a FA SP. I could also see someone like Shoemaker shift to the pen, freeing up a spot for Bridwell. Very good chance one of those guys start the year on the DL too.

[fan_since79]

9 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Richards, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Ramirez, Alvarez, Paredes, Guerra, Ramirez, Wood, Middleton, Bedrosian.

Bridwell and Petit, please.

Parker, too. I momentarily forgot him.

I'm not particularly keen on Paredes or Guerra.

Edited September 26, 2017 by fan_since79

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

You forgot Parker, and Petit, our two top pitchers by WAR, who I think they'll resign (Parker is arb eligible and Petit is a free agent). And Meyer and Bridwell as rotation guys. But good.

And Bench of Valbuena, Cowart, Graterol, Revere? Cron can be swapped for pitching or a 2b if we don't think Kendrick is

It's a 200 Million Dollar Payroll, but it's also a 95 win team.

Yes, you're right - I blitzed through and forgot Parker. I do hope they re-sign Petit as well - I even hope they re-sign Norris. But I could see both of those guys asking for a significant raise and Eppler deciding to move on and take the bargain he already received on them.

I'm fine throwing big money at the offense and leaving pitching as is, but it does make me a little nervous still. It puts a lot of faith on a staff that's been burning us for two seasons now. Not totally against it, but they better feel real good about those arms and throw a lot of money at the offense if they go that route.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 minute ago, Hubs said:

And Meyer and Bridwell as rotation guys. But good.

Meyer will be on the DL for the entire 2018.

 

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Hard to say - as it stands right now, Heaney, Skaggs, J.C. Ramirez, and Richards all have to be on the 25-man roster. They're out of options, and that's 4/5ths of a rotation right there. 

Ramirez may not be available next year as well, depending on how well his UCL responds to the stem cell injections.

[totdprods]

Just now, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Meyer will be on the DL for the entire 2018.

Ramirez may not be available next year as well, depending on how well his UCL responds to the stem cell injections.

Yes, and if he is hurt, there's Bridwell. But if he actually is healthy, he's out of options, so he is either in the rotation (which he's earned a shot at) or the bullpen (which may be best for his elbow anyways, and because GRich, Skaggs, Heaney, and Shoemaker are already here too, it could mean Bridwell gets squeezed out by the numbers/options game and winds up the #6 guy who is up first from SLC.

[Hubs]

14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Acquire Hernandez from the Phillies for Skaggs, sign Chatwood and Moose, keep Upton, re-sign Petit, and sign a solid lefty reliever. 

S- Hernandez, R- Trout, R- Upton, L- Moose, R- Pujols, L- Calhoun, R- Simmons, R- Maldonado, S- Cowart

R-GRich, R-Chatwood, R-Shoe, R-Bridwell, L-Heaney; with R- JC Ramirez waiting to return  

R-Parker, R-Petit, R-Bedrosian, R-Middleton, L-new lefty, R-N. Ramirez, clean peanut

 

I like Hernandez, but doesn't Kendrick give you the same or better production without the trade of Skaggs? Hernandez also isn't cheap.

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Yes, and if he is hurt, there's Bridwell. But if he actually is healthy, he's out of options, so he is either in the rotation (which he's earned a shot at) or the bullpen (which may be best for his elbow anyways, and because GRich, Skaggs, Heaney, and Shoemaker are already here too, it could mean Bridwell gets squeezed out by the numbers/options game and winds up the #6 guy who is up first from SLC.

Either Bridwell or Ramirez could pitch out of the bull pen. For Ramirez pitching from the bullpen may be good for him returning from the torn UCL and he has pitched there before.

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Bridwell and Petit, please.

Parker, too. I momentarily forgot him.

I'm not particularly keen on Paredes or Guerra.

Paredes is fine. He has plenty of options still. Prior to his last game where he imploded against Houston, he had posted a 3.26 ERA in 19.1 innings with a .627 OPS against. That's a solid little mid-relief arm, especially with the options to shuttle back and forth to AAA as needed. 

Noe Ramirez has done a good job too. Deolis Guerra was great last year, dominant in AAA this year, and much better than his numbers indicate in the bigs this year. He doesn't have the roster flexibility though so he's on the bubble. Blake Wood is in a similar position. He's a bit too old, inflexible, and mediocre to really be worth it, but his peripherals (14 IP, 3 BB, 19 K) aren't bad. He just had two shitty appearances back to back.

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I like Hernandez, but doesn't Kendrick give you the same or better production without the trade of Skaggs? Hernandez also isn't cheap.

 

Kendrick isn't cheap either, and turns 35 in 2018.   Hernandez would bring much needed OBP (about .370 over the past two seasons). 

It just seems that Skaggs will always be a tease.

[totdprods]

Just now, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Either Bridwell or Ramirez could pitch out of the bull pen. For Ramirez pitching from the bullpen may be good for him returning from the torn UCL and he has pitched there before.

Bridwell could pitch out of the pen if the rotation is full, but I imagine the Angels would rather have him remain stretched out in SLC in case someone gets hurt. It's not the ideal set-up, but teams do that all the time when they have a lot of rotation depth. Rarely does that sixth guy stay at AAA anyways. 

And yeah, as I mentioned in other reply, Ramirez may be best in pen for his health, but if they want to stick him in the rotation, he certainly earned the shot at it.

[ksangel]

12 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I like Hernandez, but doesn't Kendrick give you the same or better production without the trade of Skaggs? Hernandez also isn't cheap.

 

Hernandez made $2.55M last year on a 1 year contract.  Isn't arb eligible until 2018.

Howie made $10M per year the last two years...

Hernandez is a better defensive player than Howie and can bat lead off.  Their OBP's are similar but Howie isn't a base stealing threat like Hernandez which the Angels could use at the top of the order which would allow Simons and Calhoun to bat down in the lineup where they should.

And I think we've all seen what Howie brings but the Angels need to quit filling the gap year in and year out like they've done the past years at 2B and LF...

[ksangel]

17 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Either Bridwell or Ramirez could pitch out of the bull pen. For Ramirez pitching from the bullpen may be good for him returning from the torn UCL and he has pitched there before.

There was an article recently (can't find it now) that said this very same thing about Ramirez and how he may be better off long term in the bullpen...

[totdprods]

Revisiting the idea of acquiring a starting pitcher who is in their walk year, I wonder about looking at something like (not pitching exactly) dealing an arm with control, such as Skaggs, for someone like Patrick Corbin (who is in their walk year) and getting a Brandon Drury back as well. Not that trade exactly because I don't think the pieces fit, but I could see a kill two birds with one stone approach like that.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, ksangel said:

There was an article recently (can't find it now) that said this very same thing about Ramirez and how he may be better off long term in the bullpen...

Which might be best given his health and our need in the pen, especially if he could do what Petit has been doing - a multi-inning arm capable of delivering in high-leverage situations. 

Just saying that the org could also treat him as a rotation option for '18 if he is healthy, and he's earned that shot, and with our other starters also out of options, it may leave Bridwell without a spot in the rotation to start the year. 

Me? I'd deal an arm and stick Bridwell in the rotation.

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

I can't see him walking away from $87 million.

There would have to be some kind of deal where the Angels paid him a significant amount to leave early.

 

FS, how long will you work after you are able to financially retire?  I just find the idea of looking at how much money he has left on his contract to be a flawed way of looking at it.  Obviously I know nothing about the guy on a personal level.  Could he be bought out, sure.  Could he retire, sure.  Could he hold on for every last dime, sure.  I don't think the fact that there is a ton of money left on the deal ensures he will stick around.  For every indication that he "thinks he is still helping the team" there is a part of him that looks at those numbers and worries about his legacy.  For every thought that he thinks he has earned every single penny, there has to be the reality that he is broken down and in pain.  I make a decent living, if I was capable of retiring and what I did caused me to be in pain every time I went to work, I would consider retiring, especially if I had enough money set aside to not have to change my lifestyle.  Now it is totally possible that I am projecting here, but to merely look at $87 million and say now way ignores how much hes made so far. 

[Chuck]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Hard to say - as it stands right now, Heaney, Skaggs, J.C. Ramirez, and Richards all have to be on the 25-man roster. They're out of options, and that's 4/5ths of a rotation right there. 

J.C. Ramirez did a pretty damn good job this season - I think I read that he posted around the same number of 6+ IP, 2 run or less games as guys who most consider 'aces'. He's probably earned a spot in the rotation next year - if he's healthy. We will definitely need help in the pen, and he could shift back there. 

Bridwell has minor league options still, so I could see him, unfortunately, starting the year in SLC because of that reason. The org may value him staying stretched out in the rotation at AAA in case anyone gets hurt, rather than being turned back into a reliever in the pen. Shoemaker also has a minor league option, so he could find himself in SLC....but he also has the veteran card over Bridwell. 

For these reasons, I actually think we could see Eppler shopping one of Heaney, Skaggs, Ramirez, or Shoemaker this year. Even Bridwell. And even more so if we wind up signing a FA SP. I could also see someone like Shoemaker shift to the pen, freeing up a spot for Bridwell. Very good chance one of those guys start the year on the DL too.

Yeah honestly Ramirez has earned a spot over Skaggs. 

I'm starting to believe we should trade Skaggs back to Dipoto for Cano and Seager.  I'm sure Jear will bite. 

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yeah honestly Ramirez has earned a spot over Skaggs. 

I'm starting to believe we should trade Skaggs back to Dipoto for Cano and Seager.  I'm sure Jear will bite. 

Ha, I actually thought about a Skaggs for Seager or Haniger/Gamel/Heredia plus if Upton did go elsewhere.

I actually feel pretty good about Skaggs blossoming though. Think you could also approach the Orioles about Beckham or Atlanta about Camargo.

[Bull58]

Whatever happened to Gurka, did he just get benched or have a quiet Angel injury that will land him on the DL till next August or 2019?

[ksangel]

17 hours ago, totdprods said:

A .700 OPS player would be sufficient compared to what we've had running out for 2B the past few years. 
Lowrie certainly could drop into another Espinosa/Giavotella .650 or less OPS, but he's a pretty good bet to land around .700-.730 OPS. He has shown the ability to go above that too.

It depends on who else we acquire, but I see someone like Lowrie ultimately replacing Pennington more than Escobar or Cowart. He'll get more playing time than Clff more than likely, but the hope would be he platoons with Valbuena effectively at 3rd, spells Andrelton when needed (not very often, he only missed 3 games at SS this year), or can cover 2B if Cowart never improves.

I believe 99.9% on this board think Cowart will never hit at the ML level but I still hold out hope he'll figure it out and the above post give me a glimmer of hope maybe someone else still believes in Cowart.

KC was very patient with Moustakas as he struggled for three of the first four years....and .212 in 2014...gave him almost 2000 at bats...and Cowarts had about 250...