Angels' negotiations with Anaheim get off to a rocky start

[kevinb]

13 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

Those markets are tiny compared to LA. He won't be able to generate the revenue he can in LA/OC and his franchise value will take a huge hit immediately. 

An example is the Rams. Forbes estimates the value of the team went from $1.45 billion to $2.9 as a result of the move. This is exclusive of the stadium and development planned for Inglewood. And while football franchises are generally more valuable, they also are less dependent on market size than baseball. In the NFL TV rights money is distributed equally. In baseball local TV contacts are huge. Merchandise and ticket sales are also mostly distributed through the league. Luxury boxes aren't, but in baseball that all depends on the local market.

Another example is the Chargers. They were basically willing to pay over $1 billion to move from SD to LA between relocation fees and splitting stadium costs. In San Diego they are offering to pay less than half what they were in LA.

Finally, Steve Ballmer isn't even thinking of moving the Clippers to Seattle, a much better market than either Vegas or Portland. 

Also, it's not impossible, even if Arte were dumb enough to leave, another team wouldn't come to OC/LA either by relocating or more likely, expansion.

Chargers ownership is cheap and have no money compared to the rest of the owners other than Davis. The reason they want to move to LA is because they get a free new stadium with additional revenue streams. He reason it's taken forever for the Chargers to get a deal done in SD is because they want the city to build them one and the city doesn't want to fork over the whole bill. Hell it still hasn't gotten done and the NFL has said they will chip in 250-500 mil. That's how cheap and broke Spanos is. 

[kevinb]

45 minutes ago, Lou said:

I know, but what if Arte's plan is to move the team away from SoCal? 

Everyone is laughing at him because Anaheim is playing hardball now, but like it or not, Arte is in the driver's seat. He can bend over the city of Anaheim for 25 years then leave them high and dry. 

So people can go ahead and celebrate now, but in this game, Arte wins in a rout. 

Arte already won. But claiming he's broke and can't afford to pay for a new stadium is shit. Cities should not be spending a dime to build a stadium for billionaire owners especially because the economic value isn't there. Arte wins good for him and he's done very very well for himself. But him taking his team outside of Anaheim doesn't hurt Anaheim at all. All it hurts is the fans. And hey they will be on tv so giant don't care. If and when he sells he will pocket a cool billion or more. No ones suggesting he won't come out ahead. Just saying the city shouldn't pay for him to pocket extra money that they don't have to. We've already discussed at length previously why it's dumb for cities to spend millions to build a stadium for an owner. Really the only thing you need to watch is this video. And you will know what's wrong. 

 

 

[Ohtaniland]

33 minutes ago, Lou said:

I thought it was Carol's

Not until recently. 

[Stradling]

A stadium would cost $750m-$1b, he's worth a little more than a billion.  So if you had a net worth of a million bucks would you spend $750k for a garage to store your boat, RV and razor in?  

[eaterfan]

20 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Chargers ownership is cheap and have no money compared to the rest of the owners other than Davis. The reason they want to move to LA is because they get a free new stadium with additional revenue streams. He reason it's taken forever for the Chargers to get a deal done in SD is because they want the city to build them one and the city doesn't want to fork over the whole bill. Hell it still hasn't gotten done and the NFL has said they will chip in 250-500 mil. That's how cheap and broke Spanos is. 

That's not true. The Chargers were kicking in half the money for the Carson stadium, it wasn't free. They would also have been on the hook for about $500 (Rams paid $550) million in relocation fees. That would have been about $1.3 billion to move to LA.

The Spanos's ballot measure C calls for the Chargers to pay between $400-600 million to build a new stadium depending on how you view the NFL's contribution. 

But the bottom line is that even in a league not nearly as dependent on local revenue the chargers were willing to spend about twice as much to build a new stadium in LA as they were in SD. LA is such a big market. Also SD is bigger than both Vegas and Portland. If Arte wants to move there he will be significantly devaluing his franchise. Arte doesn't have leverage because he's already in the second best market and can only threaten to move to markets that are in 20's or 30's. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

51 minutes ago, Lou said:

@AngelsLakersFan we're at the salary cap. how is that not impressive? it isn't in the pitching staff because it didn't need to be if low-cost guys like Heaney, Richards and Skaggs had remained healthy. 

re: player development, I'm not going to ask how much he spends on that (or international scouting) because after years of doing so whenever someone makes that comment, I have yet to receive an educated response. 

and let's not forget the tv deal only kicked in last year

We're only 7th in payroll, and 7th in revenue. He is not spending money on the roster beyond what he brings in.

He may or may not have his reasons but his spending in other areas appears to be near the bottom of the league. I'm sorry I could not get Arte's accountant to speak on that matter, but I have yet to read anything that gives any evidence to counter that.

[Oz27]

Bringing this back to the original topic, is there a single person here who backs the Angels' stance on this? Anaheim needs this. The area around the ballpark is increasingly pathetic. There is practically nothing to do around there as a tourist before and after games. I don't give a crap if the Angels think it will undermine their food revenue. Every other ballpark has decent external options around it and we should too.

[Angel Oracle]

Other than Oakland, are there other surrounding areas as bad as the one around Angel Stadium?

[kevinb]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

A stadium would cost $750m-$1b, he's worth a little more than a billion.  So if you had a net worth of a million bucks would you spend $750k for a garage to store your boat, RV and razor in?  

Says who? And it's his team his revenue and his stadium. When I bought my house I didn't ask the city to pay for it. I got a loan and paid for it. Which he can do just as easily. Even more so. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

Bringing this back to the original topic, is there a single person here who backs the Angels' stance on this? Anaheim needs this. The area around the ballpark is increasingly pathetic. There is practically nothing to do around there as a tourist before and after games. I don't give a crap if the Angels think it will undermine their food revenue. Every other ballpark has decent external options around it and we should too.

I've felt bad for the people that bought a stadium loft. What's the point? Walking distance to Carls?

[Oz27]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

You know tdawg, I used to agree with this, but I really can't anymore.

Arte is cheap. The Albert Pujols signing is like the lowered beer prices all over again. He goes and blows his wad on a few players every once and awhile, but this is par for the course in MLB these days - even the Marlins gave Stanton a $300m contract. Overall payroll isn't that impressive anymore. Aside from the big names, where has he put money? It isn't the pitching staff, player development, or internationally. People in this thread have brought up good points. He's owned the team 13 years and he's contractually obligated to put millions into renovations to the stadium, yet all he's done is complained that the city won't give him the land to develop on for free.

Meanwhile the teams value has risen almost 700%, he's got a $2b tv deal, 3 million fans, a sweet heart lease, MLBAM money and the best player in the world on his team for pennies. 

Five pages in and this is the smartest post in the thread, by far. I'm glad we are a relatively high payroll team but it's not like we are disproportionately high. As you point out, we're about where we would be expected to be given revenue and to an extent market size as well. At the same time, we aren't doing what we're supposed to be doing with the stadium and spent years ignoring the international market. The Angels' response to the State College/Orangewood development is pretty damn childish too. So yeah, it's nowhere near as unreasonable to say we are being cheap as some posters suggest.

[Oz27]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Other than Oakland, are there other surrounding areas as bad as the one around Angel Stadium?

I haven't been to one. The contrast between us and others is astounding. Baltimore has countless awesome bars and food options on it's doorstop, as just one example. We have a decent bar a 10 minute walk away and a Hooters slightly closer. Yay?

[OCAngelsNotLAA]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Other than Oakland, are there other surrounding areas as bad as the one around Angel Stadium?

I stayed at a hotel right by Arlington stadium about 7 years ago and the only restaurant within walking distance was a Chilis... There might have been better options on the other side of the stadium but I didn't get over there. 

[Stradling]

I want him to spend money as much as the next guy and much more than some, but I don't think he's cheap.  I think cheap is having the 7th highest revenue and spending in the middle of the pack or worse.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Says who? 

?

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Other than Oakland, are there other surrounding areas as bad as the one around Angel Stadium?

Dodger Stadium, Royals and Rangers. 

[Oz27]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Dodger Stadium, Royals and Rangers. 

Dodger Stadium has Old Chinatown within one mile and that is way better than what we have.

[Stradling]

I assumed we were talking about a bar type scene to walk to after the game.  I might be in the minority but I'm not walking around LA after a game.  

[kevinb]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I assumed we were talking about a bar type scene to walk to after the game.  I might be in the minority but I'm not walking around LA after a game.  

Why? 

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

Why? 

I don't frequent places at 11 o'clock at night with a homeless population that equals that of the population that has homes.  

[kevinb]

Other than LA being so spread out most parts where there is restaurants and bars are fine to walk around at 11 o'clock. It's not as the media portrays it. I think you'll be fine. 

[Stradling]

Ok so from Dodger stadium you can walk to these places after a game, then walk back to your car at the stadium parking lot?

[eaterfan]

Just now, Stradling said:

Ok so from Dodger stadium you can walk to these places after a game, then walk back to your car at the stadium parking lot?

I'd imagine there will still be people in line trying to exit the stadium in their cars.

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Ok so from Dodger stadium you can walk to these places after a game, then walk back to your car at the stadium parking lot?

I don't know I haven't been to Dodgers stadium in a long while. LA is super spread out. If like some one said its only a mile what's a 10 min walk back and forth. It's probably a good mile from Lazy Dog to Angels stadium and the three games I went to this year that's where we went before the game and walked to the stadium. It's not too bad. Plus get a little exercise. 

[jsnpritchett]

32 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Says who? .