ISIS delenda est

[ten ocho recon scout]

I dont think the Arabian peninsula is falling anytime soon

I think even Russia would think twice about f'ing with the kingdom

Put it this way. Syria falls to isis or one of their tein brothers who hasnt gotten the same attention. Aside from israel, dethroning the saudi royals would be their next move. The race to take over the holy land of sausi arabia would be huge, with every hardline sunni group jockying to call it their own.

No way the world allows the oil there to fall hostage to that. Perhaps you allow them to sell it a la isis, but i doubt it.

Its the same as afghanistan. Lawrence mentions just pulling out (of the region), and i totally get the temptation of doing just that. The problem with afghanistan is pakistan...and its nukes. You dont want to let thet region fall to chaos because the ripple effect "next chapter" is an absolute direct threat to the world.

I think the best hope (if things stay as they are) is that isis folds like the kmer rouge did. The problem is they'll just be replaced by something just like them

[ten ocho recon scout]

You slammed the door on the General pretty hard, didn't you?

..... sink her?

[Jay]

This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

 

[Amazing Larry]

RIP

[mtangelsfan]

Put it this way. Syria falls to isis or one of their tein brothers who hasnt gotten the same attention. Aside from israel, dethroning the saudi royals would be their next move. The race to take over the holy land of sausi arabia would be huge, with every hardline sunni group jockying to call it their own.

No way the world allows the oil there to fall hostage to that. Perhaps you allow them to sell it a la isis, but i doubt it.

Its the same as afghanistan. Lawrence mentions just pulling out (of the region), and i totally get the temptation of doing just that. The problem with afghanistan is pakistan...and its nukes. You dont want to let thet region fall to chaos because the ripple effect "next chapter" is an absolute direct threat to the world.

I think the best hope (if things stay as they are) is that isis folds like the kmer rouge did. The problem is they'll just be replaced by something just like them

The Khmer Rouge didn't fold on its' own. Vietnam had a lot to do with it.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Very true. Guess what i mean is they run out of steam, its people lose their motivation and quit.

Thats the closest thing i can think of to compare isis to.

[ten ocho recon scout]

This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Someone screwes up in a situation like this and were gonna be in the biggest naval battle since the jutland.

Red october really needs its own thread. Glad im not the only fan.

Edited November 25, 2015 by ten ocho recon scout

[Hollyw00d]

LOL

 

you guys watch too many movies

[gotbeer]

Now it makes sense.  All that the Syrian refugees want is to rent a RV and live in Montana.

[HaloFan85]

I was talking to the American instructors here who have hundreds of sorties in that area.

 

1) Much like with territorial waters there's an accepted 12 mile buffer when flying near a border. This was obviously ignored in this case.

2) The area in question is a sliver of land peninsula about 3 to 10 miles wide that Turkey has claimed for the past 50 years with no dispute from Syria. The Su-24s were flying a circular pattern and each time past were warned not to breach the border. When they finally breached the border an AIM-9 heat seeker was fired and splashed the target.

3) The ones I was speaking with described it as chumming the water to see if something would bite and they got bit. Typical of Russia to press the test button to see what they can get away with and now will blame Turkey for the escalation.

So you were talking to American pilots who admitted to violating Syrian airspace hundreds of times?

[HaloFan85]

Russian pilot that survived says no warnings given:

 

"In actual fact, there were no warnings at all. Neither through the radio, nor visually, so we did not at any point adjust our course. You need to understand the difference in speed between a tactical bomber like a Su-24, and that of the F16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have sat on our wing,................“As it was, the missile hit the back of our plane out of nowhere. We didn’t even have time to make an evasive maneuver.”

 

https://www.rt.com/news/323431-saved-pilot-turkish-su24/

[mtangelsfan]

He has to be telling the truth, right?

[HaloFan85]

Turkey claims the two Su-24 planes entered their airspace for 17 seconds at a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles before they were engaged, and if the actual flight path is as they claim, the jets would've been well into Syrian territory before being fired upon. According to the Turks, the jet was making a bee line across a little peninsula that is only 2-3 miles wide.  According to the pilot, the only way for their plane to still be inside Turkish airspace over that peninsula after 17 seconds, their planes would have to have been flying at 'stall' speeds.  What the Turks are claiming not only sounds very unlikely, it sounds impossible.

 

Has Turkey released their 'official' flight data or radar data (like the Russians already have) to dispute Russia's data?  No.  All I've seen from them so far is a virtual map showing what they claim to be the flight paths of the two Russian jets.  Until they release any official data or recordings proving otherwise, I'll believe the Russians for now.

 

Regardless of who's telling the truth, how many times has Turkey violated Syrian airspace in the last 6 months?  How many times has Turkey violated other neighbors like Greece's airspace?  They violated Greece's airspace 2244 times in 2014, and all without incident!  In a bit of irony, Syria did in fact shoot down a Turkish plane violating their airspace back in 2012.  And what did Erdogan say at that time??  “a short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack”.

 

For arguments sake, let's say the Russian jet was actually inside Turkish airspace, how the hell can you justify shooting down a jet that was in your airspace for only 17 seconds?  The only way they can justify it is if Turkey is protecting ISIS along with other terrorists, and there's a mountain of evidence and incriminating comments made by many Turkish officials that shows they're clearly in bed with ISIS.

[mtangelsfan]

Ok course part of Turkish leadership is in bed with ISIS and that is pretty much the same with any ME country.

That doesn't mean the jets weren't warned first. I mean what possible gain do you believe Turkey thought it had by shooting down that plane without any provocation.

It's not like Russian jets haven't flown into other countries airspace before.

Regardless, it was a stupid move and the fact that the pilots were killed is tragic and wrong.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Now it makes sense. All that the Syrian refugees want is to rent a RV and live in Montana.

you seriously have to view any refugee who says hes a lowly cook with utter suspicion.

[arch stanton]

So you were talking to American pilots who admitted to violating Syrian airspace hundreds of times?

Da, comrade. That's what they said. That's exactly what "in that area" means.

[Tank]

you seriously have to view any refugee who says hes a lowly cook with utter suspicion.

 

casey ryback says you're wrong. dead wrong.

 

 

[Jay]

Now it makes sense.  All that the Syrian refugees want is to rent a RV and live in Montana.

[fan_since79]

Obama: Syrian refugees are like the pilgrims on the Mayflower

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/obama-syrian-refugees-are-like-pilgrims-on-the-mayflower/ar-AAfGb00?ocid=spartandhp

 

14 more months of this madness...

[Tank]

i don't understand why he seems so hellbent on making us bring them in. 

[nate]

The French have just teamed up with the Russians to attack ISIS.  We officially live in bizarro world.

 

But yay allies, keep doing this so the US doesn't have to waste any more resources on it.

[Crampknees]

Why wouldn't a Muslim who is going to turn as all into Muslims not want to compare Muslims to Pilgrims?  Makes perfect sense to me. Not sure why cons are still shocked about hearing what they have claimed is happening to us for 7 years now. Have a good Thanksgiving and don't worry about refugees for a day. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

casey ryback says you're wrong. dead wrong.

Get his pies out of the oven!

[ten ocho recon scout]

Obama: Syrian refugees are like the pilgrims on the Mayflower

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/obama-syrian-refugees-are-like-pilgrims-on-the-mayflower/ar-AAfGb00?ocid=spartandhp

14 more months of this madness...

......is that why its called 'Turkey' day?

Serious question, but why here? Meaning, why arent these people trying to get in to say north africa or asia? Wouldnt the cultures be more similar? Obviously they want a better life. But should we also start accepting the people fleeing african warzones? Burma? Sinaloa?

We brought over a huge amount of Salvadoran refugees in the 80s. The settled into the rampart district. Rampart in turn became pound for pound the most violent division of the lapd in the 90s (77th and southeast having more crime stats, but rampart beating them when taken into account how small it is).

Im not saying this would be the same. The vietnamese came over, and after a generation, thrived. But it has bad news written all over it to me...

[Tank]

The last president who had such a huge sense of urgency to do something was when dubya told us we needed to invade Iraq because they had WMDs. This feels exactly the same.