Angels' tense atmosphere nearly included Pujols, Hunter fight in 2012

[mancini79]

There have been several articles stating that Moreno has been meddling in player personnel decisions. It's very close to a fact that Moreno was behind all 3 of the huge mistakes (Pujols, Wells, and Hamilton). It's pretty close to a fact that Arte is to blame for the horrid decision making that has been made the last 3 years. I guess you're one of the people who just downplay every article because you don't agree with it.

 

LOL @ "very close to a fact".

 

I'll just stick with strictly facts before judging.

[WallyWorld]

I couldn't agree more with tdawg about this.

[Mark68]

Ibaneztown doesn't have the same ring.

How about Ciudad Ibanez?

[mancini79]

Have you seen the responses that positive posts and threads receive?

 

Weaver goes 10 straight of solid pitching starts and garners 1 thread with 10 posts.

 

Weaver has 2 bad starts which garners 3 threads going 8 pages.

 

I have no clue what you're talking about MT.

[tdawg87]

Have you seen the responses that positive posts and threads receive?

 

I have, and there are some users here who take the negativity too far and spread it into every thread regardless of the context. In those cases, I see nothing wrong with deleting their posts and giving out warnings for people to stay on topic. If a thread is made about how well the offense has done this year, it should not turn into a thread about how much the pitching sucks.

 

However, it's a catch-22. People don't create too many positive threads here, yet I see complaining about that exact fact all the time. Instead of whining about how many negative threads there are, how about you create some positive ones? If people start clogging them up with negative crap, then they can be deleted and warned to stay on topic.

[Docwaukee]

By what measure?  We were 4th in runs scored per game.

Sorry - should have mentioned that.  I was going by WAR.  Yanks, Brewers and Rangers play in run friendly parks.  1st or 4th though, my point still stands that we scored a ton of runs last year and could have taken the offensive hit to create more balance with better pitching. 

[tdawg87]

Sorry - should have mentioned that.  I was going by WAR.  Yanks, Brewers and Rangers play in run friendly parks.  1st or 4th though, my point still stands that we scored a ton of runs last year and could have taken the offensive hit to create more balance with better pitching. 

 

Yeah I think the offseason plan, as soon as Greinke was deemed not available, was to shift from a pitching-focused philosophy to one of offense. I think Dipoto figured the defense would be enough to help the pitchers keep the games close, and the offense would be able to overwhelm opponents.

 

Unfortunately none of that happened.

[Mark68]

The point is they've had a great deal of success before. The Raiders made it to five Super Bowls under Davis' tenure and they won three of them. Jones has taken the Cowboys to the promised land three times as well.

 

Moreno has experienced zero success.

My point was that it was early in their respective tenures in which they achieved success, but once it was well-established how meddling these owners actually were...they failed to have any success.

 

But I understand that the point you're making is that meddling owners do not lead to overall success. And I agree.

 

What potential GM, in their right mind, would want to work as essentially a figurehead for an overly involved owner, knowing that, in the end, he would be a scapegoat when the owner's moves end up failing? Only a new GM would take on that challenge, Certainly not an established GM like, say, Andrew Friedman.

[jshep]

This team is the West Coast equivalent of the Mets, minus the top tier prospects to at least dream on.

 

That's going to draw an awful lot of negativity, and a lot of it is justified. That's not to say that some people don't take it over the top, but just like whenever this team makes it back into playoff contention this board will be happy and positive, when this board is staring it's 4th straight bad season in the face to go along with massively underperforming players on large contracts and various alleged internal turmoil, it's not going to be as happy a place.

 

Like I said, it certainly does get taken over the top at times, and when threads get totally derailed with totally unrelated negativity, that's annoying.

 

But there are still positive threads around, just like there are negative threads(although in a time like this, the negative threads are going to be greater in number for obvious reasons).

 

If you want to complain about threads getting totally derailed with negativity like I mentioned above, go ahead.

 

But complaining about complaining on Page 9 of a thread that is pretty obviously going to be a less than positive one that could be easily avoided if a poster doesn't wish to read it...

[Docwaukee]

By the way, not trying revisionist history as I was generally on board with the theory going into the season.  After seeing how unbalanced they are, it's a good lesson not to try the same thing for 2014

[mancini79]

Yeah I think the offseason plan, as soon as Greinke was deemed not available, was to shift from a pitching-focused philosophy to one of offense. I think Dipoto figured the defense would be enough to help the pitchers keep the games close, and the offense would be able to overwhelm opponents.

 

Unfortunately none of that happened.

 

I think the Angels FO went after the next best player after Greinke was off the table. It just so happened the rest of the SP free agents looked bleak.

[tdawg87]

That's definitely plausible. Although, wasn't Anibal Sanchez still available at the time? Of course, he may not have wanted to sign with the Angels but I don't recall hearing about there being any interest one way or the other.

[Lifetime]

This team is the West Coast equivalent of the Mets, minus the top tier prospects to at least dream on.

 

That's going to draw an awful lot of negativity, and a lot of it is justified. That's not to say that some people don't take it over the top, but just like whenever this team makes it back into playoff contention this board will be happy and positive, when this board is staring it's 4th straight bad season in the face to go along with massively underperforming players on large contracts and various alleged internal turmoil, it's not going to be as happy a place.

 

Like I said, it certainly does get taken over the top at times, and when threads get totally derailed with totally unrelated negativity, that's annoying.

 

But there are still positive threads around, just like there are negative threads(although in a time like this, the negative threads are going to be greater in number for obvious reasons).

 

If you want to complain about threads getting totally derailed with negativity like I mentioned above, go ahead.

 

But complaining about complaining on Page 9 of a thread that is pretty obviously going to be a less than positive one that could be easily avoided if a poster doesn't wish to read it...

I suppose that you could simply skip over the one line comment about the general state of the board (his opinion) in much the same manner as you suggest. 

[Amazing Larry]

By the way, not trying revisionist history as I was generally on board with the theory going into the season. After seeing how unbalanced they are, it's a good lesson not to try the same thing for 2014

Same here but I learned a lesson and I believe Arte and Dipoto did as well. Hopefully we acquire some pitching this offseason via trade or international signing. I don't expect this team to do a 180 and win the pennant next year but if they show me they are moving in the right direction I'll be satisfied.

Also if Trout sees he is on a team capable of winning he is more likely to stick around. God I hope they sign him. If he slips away it will be a fail of epic proportion.

[jshep]

That's definitely plausible. Although, wasn't Anibal Sanchez still available at the time? Of course, he may not have wanted to sign with the Angels but I don't recall hearing about there being any interest one way or the other.

 

Ya, Sanchez was still a FA. I think he re-signed with the Tigers pretty shortly after that.

[Stradling]

People are still saying shit like this? First off, if you don't like it here, no one is forcing you to stay. Instead of bitching about the quality of the board you could just leave.

Secondly, this board is incredibly tame when compared to other sports message boards. Ever been to the Lakers board when they lose? How about the Red Sox?

I don't know what some of you guys are expecting. All roses and rainbows and sunshine despite the awful state of the organization.

Ok so I complain about the fact that this board has be one nothing more than hate and speculation and I'm the one that's wrong? Where's the logic in that? Why don't the people who bitch and complain without any form of logic leave and become fans of a team they feel is going to give them the instant gratification they so desire.

[tdawg87]

Well, it isn't "nothing more than hate and speculation". I literally don't see what you are talking about there.

 

And maybe those people are bitching and complaining because they have, you know, passion for their team? I don't deny for a second that it can become annoying and grating but don't act like they are a lesser fan than you are because they have a way of showing it that you don't agree with. If they truly didn't want to be a fan of this team then I'm sure they would leave.

 

And you have every right to be annoyed about it and upset about it. But as jshep said, I don't see the point in complaining about it and saying how awful this place is becoming on page 9 of a thread that is quite obviously not a positive one.

[Marsaka]

Ok so I complain about the fact that this board has be one nothing more than hate and speculation and I'm the one that's wrong? Where's the logic in that? Why don't the people who bitch and complain without any form of logic leave and become fans of a team they feel is going to give them the instant gratification they so desire.

 

so i guess after reading those foxsports articles people have no reason to bitch and complain...ya that's logic.

[Stradling]

Yes everyone has the right to bitch and complain, but that is all this place has become. TDawg is right, I should contribute more positive threads, however the last time I did that it got completely shit on. I'm as frustrated as anyone on here but I am equally frustrated that this place isn't even talking real baseball any more (insert joke about that being fitting considering the team isn't playing real baseball anymore) it is a place that wants to place blame and speculate beyond sense and reason.

[tdawg87]

Yes everyone has the right to bitch and complain, but that is all this place has become. TDawg is right, I should contribute more positive threads, however the last time I did that it got completely shit on. I'm as frustrated as anyone on here but I am equally frustrated that this place isn't even talking real baseball any more (insert joke about that being fitting considering the team isn't playing real baseball anymore) it is a place that wants to place blame and speculate beyond sense and reason.

 

I think that when a positive thread is made, or one that is specifically meant to be positive in nature, then the general tone of the thread should stay the same way. Obviously people can and will provide differing opinions, but as I said before, a thread praising the offense shouldn't turn into an Arte/Dipoto/Butcher bash festival.

 

If we are to expect a vent thread to stay negative in tone, and not allow people to go in and complain about specific vents they see, then it should work the other way as well. I think threads on this board go off topic very easily and turn into a complete mess after a while. Not that the mods aren't doing anything about it or are doing a poor job, it's just that the users themselves should know when to show some restraint, and to that regard I see where stradling and mt are coming from.

[Lifetime]

So it's reasonable to complain about the team and the organization because well, they're just bad, but it is unreasonable to complain about the constant blame, overly speculative negative threads. Interesting.

[tdawg87]

So it's reasonable to complain about the team and the organization because we'll, they're just bad, but it is unreasonable to complain about the constant blame, overly speculative negative threads. Interesting.

 

[Lifetime]

Ya OK

[mancini79]

It looks VERY VERY happy.

[Ohtaniland]

Al Davis...........Just Win, Baby

 

That should solve it.