The Official Los Angeles Angels 2023-2024 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, TroutField said:

He took one of the best run franchises in sports and ruined every single aspect of it from top to bottom. 
Im not mad about Snell not being signed, I just can’t believe what this old f**k has done to my favorite sports franchise

You left out that he was a big part of it being “one of the best run franchises in sports”. Disney won the World Series and immediately was fine with the team being contracted by MLB just as long as Disney got paid.  

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Today was the day

This is today. Today is yesterday. And tomorrow is also today. 

[Inside Pitch]

15 minutes ago, TroutField said:

He took one of the best run franchises in sports and ruined every single aspect of it from top to bottom. 
Im not mad about Snell not being signed, I just can’t believe what this old f**k has done to my favorite sports franchise

Its the damage to the farm, that's been the issue.

Many of us have said it but I don't think people realize just how truly bad the system was in 2015.  The gap between the Angels and the next worst team was possibly bigger than the gap between that team and the very best farm system in MLB.

[Blarg]

8 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Yeah, but he never really had a shot at making the major league team.  At least Fletcher was in the conversation.

He played more games last year than Fletcher. I don't think either were in any conversations.  

[TroutField]

32 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You left out that he was a big part of it being “one of the best run franchises in sports”. Disney won the World Series and immediately was fine with the team being contracted by MLB just as long as Disney got paid.  

Thats wrong. 
 

he bought the franchise in 2002 from Disney who put Stoneman and Scioscia in charge and let the baseball people run the baseball club. 
 

as soon as Arte started putting his hands all over the franchise and even more so player personnel decisions, and stopped listening to smart baseball people things went the wrong way. 
 

things were fine for 7 years while the pristine farm system kept chugging along. 2010 on has been a cluster fuck. 13 years of a bad franchise vs 7 years of a good one that he took over. 
 

I won’t derail the thread with this topic but wanted to make that point 

[jsnpritchett]

 

 

[Blarg]

52 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

If they would have caved to his opt out request they would have had him.

I was given very similar info on Snell from a member of the Yankees front office.  He didn't have specifics on whatever deal the Angels might be working on but he claimed an average of 35 mil or an opt out after one season was what they were hearing Boras was looking for or had set as a starting point.

The actual signing will get him close to the 35 Mil after the one season and gets him back out there next season year without the burden of the draft pick.

If Arte was the reason they didn't do it, then its maybe the first time I'm happy he interfered with his GM.

I think Snell slips back to his 2023 or 2022 self and can't opt out with those numbers. His career volatility is going to lock him into the Giants for the full term of this contract. 

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I think Snell slips back to his 2023 or 2022 self and can't opt out with those numbers. His career volatility is going to lock him into the Giants for the full term of this contract. 

If I was a pitcher signing a one year deal there is no park I'd rather pitch in than that one.  I know his history, but if he's healthy he will pitch well and that place will mask some warts... Think MadBum.

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, TroutField said:

Thats wrong. 
 

he bought the franchise in 2002 from Disney who put Stoneman and Scioscia in charge and let the baseball people run the baseball club. 
 

as soon as Arte started putting his hands all over the franchise and even more so player personnel decisions, and stopped listening to smart baseball people things went the wrong way. 
 

things were fine for 7 years while the pristine farm system kept chugging along. 2010 on has been a cluster fuck. 13 years of a bad franchise vs 7 years of a good one that he took over. 
 

I won’t derail the thread with this topic but wanted to make that point 

He bought the team in 2003, not 2002.  Then the team became the media darling and was considered for nearly a decade the best ran franchise in sports especially for fan experience. Then the product went to shit because of poor allocations specifically to the farm and then to free agency. 

[Stradling]

I wanted the Angels to sign Snell but today I looked at his baseball savant pages for 2022 and 2021, Jesus Christ they were bad. 

[TroutField]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He bought the team in 2003, not 2002.  Then the team became the media darling and was considered for nearly a decade the best ran franchise in sports especially for fan experience. Then the product went to shit because of poor allocations specifically to the farm and then to free agency. 

It was the 02-03 offseason. It was voted that because it was put on a tee for him with Mike Scioscia, Bill Stoneman, a top farm system, and fresh off a World Series championship. Riding the coat tails for another 7 years before completely ruining everything is exactly what I’m saying. 
 

he was the owner that let it all go to shit because he didn’t allocate resources to the farm. 

[T.G.]

If Snell hadn't thrown that sim game for teams he would have only been able to get $61.9 million.

[TroutField]

Any reason there has been zero interest in Montgomery all along? 
 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, TroutField said:

It was the 02-03 offseason. It was voted that because it was put on a tee for him with Mike Scioscia, Bill Stoneman, a top farm system, and fresh off a World Series championship. Riding the coat tails for another 7 years before completely ruining everything is exactly what I’m saying. 
 

he was the owner that let it all go to shit because he didn’t allocate resources to the farm. 

He didn’t ride the coat tails, he literally signed Vlad, Colon, Escobar, Hunter.  Drafted Weaver, Trout, Kole, Skaggs.  And yes he was the owner who let it turn to shit, but he’s also the guy who was there when that playoff run was built. Most of that 2002 group was gone during most of the teams run of playoffs. 

[Stradling]

Just now, TroutField said:

Any reason there has been zero interest in Montgomery all along? 
 

They showed interest early on even had negotiations. It’s believed he wants to be in the mid west or back east. 

[BTH]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They showed interest early on even had negotiations. It’s believed he wants to be in the mid west or back east. 

Think they revisit those?

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

 

It's obviously true in at least the sense that the MLBPA does not care about lower and mid tier players.

[AngelsLakersFan]

37 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He didn’t ride the coat tails, he literally signed Vlad, Colon, Escobar, Hunter.  Drafted Weaver, Trout, Kole, Skaggs.  And yes he was the owner who let it turn to shit, but he’s also the guy who was there when that playoff run was built. Most of that 2002 group was gone during most of the teams run of playoffs. 

If someone bought In N Out today and ran it into the ground within 15 years, would you give them credit for doing a wonderful job for the first 7?

[Erstad Grit]

33 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He didn’t ride the coat tails, he literally signed Vlad, Colon, Escobar, Hunter.  Drafted Weaver, Trout, Kole, Skaggs.  And yes he was the owner who let it turn to shit, but he’s also the guy who was there when that playoff run was built. Most of that 2002 group was gone during most of the teams run of playoffs. 

Are you saying Arte is the one who made all those decisions? Obviously every owner needs to approve decisions, but you seem to be saying Arte has been calling the shots.

Trading for Simmons, Teixeira, and Haren ; signing Morales, Abreu, and drafting Kendrick were all great moves under Arte. We can also add lots of incredibly detrimental moves. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Its the damage to the farm, that's been the issue.

Many of us have said it but I don't think people realize just how truly bad the system was in 2015.  The gap between the Angels and the next worst team was possibly bigger than the gap between that team and the very best farm system in MLB.

I honestly feel like it's never really recovered.  Or hasn't been allowed to.  Is and always will be an afterthought by the current regime.  They blew up a decent chunk of it in one fell swoop last year.  

[ThisismineScios]

On 3/16/2024 at 10:39 PM, BTH said:

Because it’s true. The front office is interested in him.

 

In the end I’m glad they didn’t get Snell with an opt out. Even thought I’m the first to say pick 45 rarely hits, until that guy doesn’t hit he’s likely a top 10 team prospect. Which just helps you make moves at the very least. 

I hope they do something. Having an offer out to Snell or at least being willing to hear offers is a molecule of positivity. Lorenzen and Clevinger at least provide a better #4-5 option. Martinez Pham or Belt help the lineup. I truly hope we are not trying to get excited about Sano or Soto. 

I am also starting to feel that Adell gets traded in the next 10 days. Hicks and Moniak are clearly ahead of him, and you don’t keep him as a DH. 

[Docwaukee]

I'm not mad at Arte.  I just don't like the way he runs the franchise.  He's actually pretty predictable and nothing much has changed since he started.  A little bit of window dressing here and there but really, it's all been part of the same MO.  Feed the major league team.  Put a reasonably marketable team on the field with a blend of some star power and hint of decency.  

And to the comment earlier of him riding the coattails of the previous regime.  Sort of true.  What he really did was to ride the vision of Bill Stoneman.  Arte seemed a lot more passive in those days where he let Bill do his thing and Bill kept him under control.  I think that 2009 series loss to the Yanks really changed him.  And Reagins fumbling about sort of facilitated him getting more involved.  

Arte wants to win and has shown his support in the way he sees best by spending a certain amount.  His efforts have been misguided for a long time and while there is that passion for winning, it's never really been ahead of his passion for making money.  Except last year.  That was really quite the disaster.  Raise payroll.  Put a big dent in the farm.  Barely win 70 games and soon to follow you lose your golden goose to your biggest rival down the street.  

And the reason I just shake my head at the way he runs things is that he was willing to throw 9 figures at yet another player who is probably on the downside of his prime if not already past it.  

We joke about the definition of insanity.  But I guess it's not insane considering that he's probably pocketing millions on a yearly and could easily get a more than 10 fold return on his original investment.  

I always gotten the sense from him when he does interviews that he's got this sort of 'if you don't like it then oh well' sort of attitude.  

We talk a lot about what he should do differently.  Why should he?  As far as he's concerned, it ain't broken.  The only thing that broken was last year when he spent an extra 50 million dollars for no reason.  

[Pancake Bear]

I'm not particularly sad that we didn't get Snell. I said before I didn't see a contract scenario that made sense. Apparently there was maybe an offer from the Angels that would've made sense from their perspective, but I'm not surprised Snell passed on it, if that report was accurate.

I still think Montgomery is the better fit, but it sounds like he isn't interested in coming here. Personally, I'd still go grab Lorenzen and Martinez at this point. Sure, Lorenzen doesn't improve the rotation, but he does add depth (which, imo, we clearly need), and him and JD together probably don't cost all that much at this point. 

[Pancake Bear]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

He bought the team in 2003, not 2002.  Then the team became the media darling and was considered for nearly a decade the best ran franchise in sports especially for fan experience. Then the product went to shit because of poor allocations specifically to the farm and then to free agency. 

I remember when I first ran across the "Disney ownership was actually awesome" narrative. I was genuinely shocked by it. Especially since it came out afterward that they told Stoneman in so many words that they had zero interest in building a winner. Truly hilarious. Arte may be a shitty owner in many ways, but the notion that Disney was a good owner is based on nothing other than the fact that they basically ignored the club and let Stoneman and Sosh do whatever with a limited budget. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Pancake Bear said:

I remember when I first ran across the "Disney ownership was actually awesome" narrative. I was genuinely shocked by it. Especially since it came out afterward that they told Stoneman in so many words that they had zero interest in building a winner. Truly hilarious. Arte may be a shitty owner in many ways, but the notion that Disney was a good owner is based on nothing other than the fact that they basically ignored the club and let Stoneman and Sosh do whatever with a limited budget. 

Bill Stoneman won in spite of Disney.  The Angels would be a vastly better team today had he simply stayed on as GM for a couple more years or if more of the old guard survived the Dipoto purge.