AngelsWin Podcast Episode 21

[Chuck]

22 hours ago, Sully151 said:

Spotify, while sitting in traffic.

91 fwy or 405 fwy?

[Chuck]

23 hours ago, Spirit said:

I'm curious:  How do all of you consume the AW Podcast? 

YouTube video?

Podcast platform?  (Spotify, iTunes, etc)

 

Would love to hear more from some of you on how you consume our AW podcast. 

[Sully151]

59 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

91 fwy or 405 fwy?

I drive my kids to school from RSM to Santa Ana every day. 5 fwy at 7:45 in the morning.

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Sully151 said:

I drive my kids to school from RSM to Santa Ana every day. 5 fwy at 7:45 in the morning.

Ah. Yeah I lived in Mission Viejo and worked in Tustin and had to take that route to work for 5 years. 

[Angel Oracle]

YouTube

[Blarg]

Youtube linked from this site. 

[Chuck]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:10 AM, Ariamus said:

Just watched the episode today...

The guys are delusional re Arte. It's not for a lack of trying? That's complete BS. You know where Arte doesn't "try" at all? Player development.

In the first half of his time as owner, the club summarily dismantled a scouting and player development apparatus that produced the steady gusher of talent that lead to a decade of dominance during the 2000s. The vast majority of the guys who won the 2002 Series and however many division crowns after were home-grown.

But, in the decade and half since the unbelievable 2009 draft, the Angels have developed exactly TWO players who compiled career bWAR totals in the double digits with the club: Kole Calhoun and David Fletcher. The Angels farm system has been a laughing stock for a decade. They have been made themselves notorious for how poorly they treat their minor leaguers.

This is all on Arte. For him, player development is a line on the budget ledger that will never "appear" to be in the black. So he doesn't spend on it.

The same is true for analytics. It's another area where Arte's Angels have been notorious for being oblivious to.

Again, these things are all on Arte. So it is farcical to think he's done everything he can to win.

Period. Full Stop!

@Ariamus, Arte Moreno was not the focus of the podcast. I have said on previous pods this season that Arte has been a problem, especially when it came to not investing in player development, how he goes for the next shiny thing in FA when he doesn't get his guy and how he was cheap when it came to adding quality starting pitching prior to this past season. 

That said, they did go after some high priced FA starting pitchers like Gerrit Cole, Zach Wheeler, Patrick Corbin (when he was good) and others, but they went to teams they wanted to sign with, so you can't put the blame on Arte for a lack of trying, which is what @Spirit was referring to. 

You also can blame him for Adrian Beltre getting swooped in on during the wee hours overnight by the Texas Rangers because they added another year to the contract and more money.... you can't blame him for Pujols, Rendon, Hamilton and some others for not producing to expectations, or the injuries they've sustained. You can't blame Arte for ALL the injuries the club has sustained this year when he put together a solid roster that had a damn good chance even if half of the guys stayed healthy. You can't blame Arte for Ohtani getting TJ surgery and for Trout not being able to stay on the field as well. 

Thank you for listening!! 

[Ariamus]

5 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

@Ariamus, Arte Moreno was not the focus of the podcast. I have said on previous pods this season that Arte has been a problem, especially when it came to not investing in player development, how he goes for the next shiny thing in FA when he doesn't get his guy and how he was cheap when it came to adding quality starting pitching prior to this past season. 

That said, they did go after some high priced FA starting pitchers like Gerrit Cole, Zach Wheeler, Patrick Corbin (when he was good) and others, but they went to teams they wanted to sign with, so you can't put the blame on Arte for a lack of trying, which is what @Spirit was referring to. 

You also can blame him for Adrian Beltre getting swooped in on during the wee hours overnight by the Texas Rangers because they added another year to the contract and more money.... you can't blame him for Pujols, Rendon, Hamilton and some others for not producing to expectations, or the injuries they've sustained. You can't blame Arte for ALL the injuries the club has sustained this year when he put together a solid roster that had a damn good chance even if half of the guys stayed healthy. You can't blame Arte for Ohtani getting TJ surgery and for Trout not being able to stay on the field as well. 

Thank you for listening!! 

You're quite welcome! I enjoy the show and will keep listening.

Admittedly, it was Victor that reeled me in... I was a huge fan of him from his broadcasting days and still miss him greatly. But I've since learned that you guys (Chuck and Jeff) are great as well and the show holds up great even when Victor can't make it. Keep up the great work!

That said... My main point is that you can't be a consistent winner without player development. Using just free agency to build a roster involves too much risk and no fault tolerance. Without a steady stream of capable replacements, even if only temporary ones, the only way the FA approach will work is if there are no "issues" with the players you sign.

Ultimately, Arte's regime doesn't do player development and arguably hasn't since almost day one. It's a testament to the previous regime that the club continued to be really good for almost the first entire decade of his reign. But the flow of talent from the minors eventually ended and the well remains dry.

I also think your recollection on some of the specifics with FA signings and missed ones is a bit off.

On Beltre, I don't think we can let the club off the hook for Texas "sniping" him at the last minute. The impression that I got at the time and everything I've read since suggest that the Halos took it for granted that he would accept their offer. It was well documented that Beltre wanted desperately to return to SoCal and I think Reagins and Moreno banked on that. Instead they focused on signing Cliff Lee and Beltre felt unwanted so he changed his expectations on where to sign.

Additionally, there is definitely blame to be had for some of the big contracts Arte did authorize. Actually, just one. Even at the time, most everyone outside of the Halos' circles saw the Hamilton signing for what it was, a terrible decision. Never mind the risks involved given his personal history, there were two HUGE warning signs with him at the time.

First, there were his terrible splits at the Big A. Everyone knows the park across the road from Disneyland is where fly balls go to die and Hamilton was a big, booming fly-ball hitter. And second was the fact that, although he had been healthy and clean the entire season, Hamilton's numbers crashed in the second half of 2012. He dropped almost 50 points in average, almost 60 in OBP, and 120+ in slugging in the second half of that season. That plus the fact that he was well past 30, and a "hard 30" at that, by then. Did the Halos learn nothing from the Mo Vaughn catastrophe? Apparently not. No, Hamilton was incredibly ill-advised at the time. No credit for that one.

The Pujols signing was also quite risky and everyone should have seen that at the time but I won't hold that one against Arte. Because, even if Albert didn't live up to the money on the field, the Angels did get an excellent return on investment in literal cash with his signing.

I won't dispute the CJ Wilson or even the Rendon signings. Both were smart signings at the time and they just happened to not work out, albeit for different reasons.

I also won't hold a lot of the players they missed out on against the club. Cole was always going to sign for the Yankees unless they completely ignored him and they didn't. It still sucks but it is what it is.

Wheeler is much the same except in his case, it was his girl that guaranteed he'd never wind up in Anaheim. I live in Jersey and she's from around here. Word is, she wasn't keen on moving too far away from her family so that explains Wheeler's choice.

BTW, fun story... I've met Wheeler's father-in-law. He's a regular at my favorite watering hole and Wheeler and his wife actually had dinner at the same place the night the Phils clinched their NLDS series with Atlanta last fall. The story is they headed up to her folks' place after the game and stopped on the way for chow.

So, some good and some bad with the FAs. But the original point about player development stands. You can't be a consistent winner without it and unfortunately, there's no reason to believe Arte will ever change his tune on the subject. Not many 77-year-old leopards change their spots, after all.

Anyway... Thanks for reading my words and keep up the great work with the pod.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Ariamus

[Tank]

just finished listening to episode 21. good job, boys. thanks for staying reasonably sober.