Gameday Thread: (7/16/23 4pm on ESPN) Astros @ Angels: Cabbage at 1B

[Swordsman78]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Agreed but why is he choosing to put them in some random role?

Their role is to get 3 outs without giving up a run.   Nobody could accomplish what they are all paid very well to be proficient at.

Forcing the BP to be utilized in the 4th inning didn't help at all either.

Everyone's zeal to get another manager fired, allows for the glossing over that the pitching has been sh*t for the past several games, and too many starters sitting out on IL.

[AngelsFaninGA]

19 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Why?  No blame for the pitchers (from 7th inning on) including Estevez, who couldn't get out of an inning without coughing up a homer and multiple runs?
 

Or Anderson who couldn't get to the 4th inning?

Who else could Nevin put out there?  

  

Estevez has a very clearly defined role in our bullpen. I don't think he's pitched in a similar situation all year except once or twice when he needed work. And then to use Barria in the 9th when he had two awful meltdowns against the A's and Marlins is just comical

[khouse]

56 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what Nevin could have been thinking.  

Honestly...none of us should really be surprised. I mean...think about it...the Angels extend a rookie manager (for stability despite already knowing his inefficiencies & limitations from the year previous) to guide a team desperate to make the playoffs &, in the process, retain a once-in-a-lifetime superstar? I mean, c'mon...years from now.. all we will be able to say is this kind of thinking (or the glaring lack of it) was, sadly & typically, just so Angels...

[Swordsman78]

3 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Estevez has a very clearly defined role in our bullpen. I don't think he's pitched in a similar situation all year except once or twice when he needed work. And then to use Barria in the 9th when he had two awful meltdowns against the A's and Marlins is just comical

Nit picking.   Estevez was sh*t tonight.  They were all sh*t tonight.  Nobody could get out of an inningafter the 6th.  Every pitcher failed.  Every.Single.One.  How about turning your microscope on that.   Blaming Nevin isn't going to fix the pitchers inability to execute their position.

[Swordsman78]

Just now, khouse said:

Honestly...none of us should really be surprised. I mean...think about it...the Angels extend a rookie manager (for stability despite already knowing his inefficiencies & limitations from the year previous) to guide a team desperate to make the playoffs &, in the process, retain a once-in-a-lifetime superstar? I mean, c'mon...years from now.. all we will be able to say is this kind of thinking (or the glaring lack of it) was, sadly & typically, just so Angels...

We get it.  You guys want Nevin fired.  Go find another team when he is still here next year because the smarter people in the franchise make decisions based on understanding the game, not like a bunch of over emotional little girls

[AngelsFaninGA]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Nit picking.   Estevez was sh*t tonight.  They were all sh*t tonight.  Nobody could get out of an inningafter the 6th.  Every pitcher failed.  Every.Single.One.  How about turning your microscope on that.   Blaming Nevin isn't going to fix the pitchers inability to execute their position.

Estevez was put in a position to fail. Would you have him start a game and call him shit if he struggled, or play Ohtani at third base? No, that's on the manager. 

[ThisismineScios]

And all the pitchers continue to make awful pitch sequencing/location decisions. Barria floated a breaker in the middle of the zone to a guy that was 3-3 and on a team that swings at the first pitch the most in the league. Seriously, does Wise even know that? Webb tonight was really really awful. It’s been an issue all year. How Matt Wise still has a job  on a team in desperate need of success is just ludicrous. Sandoval, Barria, Ohtani!, Suarez, Loup, and Anderson have all Had major regressions. Big ones. Why is there no pressure on the pitching coach? 

[Swordsman78]

3 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Estevez was put in a position to fail. Would you have him start a game and call him shit if he struggled, or play Ohtani at third base? No, that's on the manager. 

Its on Nevin because he started Estevez?  Because he played Ohtani at 3rd?   Geez,  now you're manufacturing story lines to be upset at the manager.

Players bat in different postions in the order all the time, if Neto strikes out leading off is it Nevin's fault because Neto is accustomed to batting 9th?

[khouse]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

We get it.  You guys want Nevin fired.  Go find another team when he is still here next year because the smarter people in the franchise make decisions based on understanding the game, not like a bunch of over emotional little girls

Yeah...I see, so rather than see the irony/truth in what I and others here have posted tonight...you get defensive and emotional and then want to insinuate that we are ones acting like little girls? I mean, lol...best of luck to you with that...

[ThisismineScios]

38 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

We get it.  You guys want Nevin fired.  Go find another team when he is still here next year because the smarter people in the franchise make decisions based on understanding the game, not like a bunch of over emotional little girls

Yeah you pansies. So what if he was a terrible 3B coach. So what if he'd never proven anything. So what if he said he's fine with mistakes. So what if they've made more mental mistakes than any other team. So what if they're among the worst defensive teams in the league. Smart people know that good defense, smart base running, bunting, strategy, and bullpen management are vastly overrated. Only emotional little girls care about stuff like that. 

[AngelsMetsWS]

43 minutes ago, khouse said:

Honestly...none of us should really be surprised. I mean...think about it...the Angels extend a rookie manager (for stability despite already knowing his inefficiencies & limitations from the year previous) to guide a team desperate to make the playoffs &, in the process, retain a once-in-a-lifetime superstar? I mean, c'mon...years from now.. all we will be able to say is this kind of thinking (or the glaring lack of it) was, sadly & typically, just so Angels...

Phil was the placeholder while Arte sold the team.  

[fan_since79]

This team is getting weird now. You have an historic 25-1 beat down of Colorado and a wild, crazy double comeback win last night, surrounded by a whole lot of losses, some of them unmentionable.

What a season. We might lose 90 games this year with a handful of epic wins mixed in.

Tear the whole thing down and start afresh. Five- year rebuild from the farm system up.

[full circle]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

We get it.  You guys want Nevin fired.  Go find another team when he is still here next year because the smarter people in the franchise make decisions based on understanding the game, not like a bunch of over emotional little girls

This guy is clearly related to Nevin in some way.  And just like I thought, there’s no justifying what Nevin did, just deflection and redirection.  I understand the game great, and your relative Nevin is awful at his job.  We all know the players suck, and we say so.  Managers shouldn’t be the reason games are lost, and this one and others are on Phildo. 

[TroutField]

20 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

This team is getting weird now. You have an historic 25-1 beat down of Colorado and a wild, crazy double comeback win last night, surrounded by a whole lot of losses, some of them unmentionable.

What a season. We might lose 90 games this year with a handful of epic wins mixed in.

Tear the whole thing down and start afresh. Five- year rebuild from the farm system up.

This is what it will take. This shit is a mess from head to toe. I’ve never seen pitching this absolutely atrocious. It’s almost unbelievable, nobody can get outs. I feel like we give up 9-10 runs every game. I can’t remember a time I was so sick of this team… I don’t know if I can bear to watch anymore of it. 
 

we need to do a Baltimore style rebuild and try again in 2030. 

[jsnpritchett]

4 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Going to see Heat for close to the 100th time. Hopefully, I'll have news of an Angels victory waiting for me when I get out of the theater! 

Ok, apparently not. 

[AvsBroncosAngels05]

For those who can bear watching this week after today's disaster, it will be interesting to see this Yankees series considering the Yankees and Angels both had gut punching losses today and seem to be heading in the same direction. Unfortunately my gut feeling is the Yankees will be the ones to win 2 of 3 from this nosedive upcoming series.  

[nando714]

What’d I miss? Lol

[jsnpritchett]

 

[Don]

2 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

Why?  No blame for the pitchers (from 7th inning on) including Estevez, who couldn't get out of an inning without coughing up a homer and multiple runs?
 

Or Anderson who couldn't get to the 4th inning?

Who else could Nevin put out there?  

  

Sure, there’s some blame on the actual pitchers there. But Estevez and Barria never should have been used in the way they were tonight. There’s absolutely zero reason to do it that way.

[Swordsman78]

5 minutes ago, Don said:

Sure, there’s some blame on the actual pitchers there. But Estevez and Barria never should have been used in the way they were tonight. There’s absolutely zero reason to do it that way.

Wow.  Only "some" blame for the pitchers.  
 

You probably didn't notice, but your man Estevez was needed to match up with the top of the Astro order.

  I'm sorry if he wasn't accustomed to coming into the game 10 minutes early.   He was the best/maybe only choice between him, Loup, and Barria to get out of the 8th.

[full circle]

23 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Wow.  Only "some" blame for the pitchers.  
 

You probably didn't notice, but your man Estevez was needed to match up with the top of the Astro order.

  I'm sorry if he wasn't accustomed to coming into the game 10 minutes early.   He was the best/maybe only choice between him, Loup, and Barria to get out of the 8th.

That’s called overmanaging.  With a four run lead you go to your mop up guy because that’s his role and you’re not nearly as concerned with matchups because if he doesn’t have it you have wiggle room to make adjustments and still have a lead.  Instead he put both guys out of position and he lost the game for us as a result.   Piss poor management.  

[Tank]

What a mess of a game, from Nevin’s poor use of the pen to our pitchers being so incredibly poor at their jobs to Houston pouncing when given the chance. 
 

[Duren, Duren]

2 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

And all the pitchers continue to make awful pitch sequencing/location decisions. Barria floated a breaker in the middle of the zone to a guy that was 3-3 and on a team that swings at the first pitch the most in the league. Seriously, does Wise even know that? Webb tonight was really really awful. It’s been an issue all year. How Matt Wise still has a job  on a team in desperate need of success is just ludicrous. Sandoval, Barria, Ohtani!, Suarez, Loup, and Anderson have all Had major regressions. Big ones. Why is there no pressure on the pitching coach? 

I've brought up Wise before, but the focus always goes back to Nevin. 

Most managers were never pitchers and depend on the pitching coach for inside technical assessment as a game goes along. And the pitching coach has more knowledge than anyone on the staff else about how rest, matchups, repertoire and mindset affect each pitcher after each pitch. 

It's naive to think that Nevin sits by himself and just makes random decisions. Sure, he has final say and can use his own gut feelings, but the pitching coach should be constantly feeding him information. He's in the dugout, not in the bullpen. It's possible that they have disagreements, but unless someone is fired it probably will stay private.

So I think it's a collaborative effort, with Nevin taking responsibility, but that his decisions are filtered through what Wise is telling him. 

[Swordsman78]

14 minutes ago, full circle said:

That’s called overmanaging.  With a four run lead you go to your mop up guy because that’s his role and you’re not nearly as concerned with matchups because if he doesn’t have it you have wiggle room to make adjustments and still have a lead.  Instead he put both guys out of position and he lost the game for us as a result.   Piss poor management.  

You're so bad at this

....and a one horse pony.   Every loss you're after the mgr.  

[full circle]

24 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

You're so bad at this

....and a one horse pony.   Every loss you're after the mgr.  

false.  Again you have no argument, because there isn’t one.