Bill James on trading Trout

[tdawg87]

27 minutes ago, TroutField said:

He’s making the point that if we don’t put a team around Mike that his production or lack of production doesn’t matter. Have you been watching since 2010

Yes, actually.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, TroutField said:

He’s making the point that if we don’t put a team around Mike that his production or lack of production doesn’t matter. Have you been watching since 2010

Yes since 1961, most viewing on my transistor radio

[TempeAngel]

On 7/14/2022 at 12:01 PM, Angelsjunky said:

I also don't think we can say that Willie Mays was facing pitchers only throwing 85-90 mph. While velocities have certainly gone up, pitchers were always throwing 95+ -- or at least in Mays' time. Maybe a lower percentage; if that's what you're saying, I agree, but it still seems like an exaggeration. 

 

I wonder what % of pitchers threw 95 in 1962 versus now in 2022? Did you have 2 or 3 on each team then and 6 or 7 on each team now?

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Mays and Aaron did not face pitchers throwing 95 to 100 all the time. Different era now plus with shifts. If halos trade Ohtani this off-season Trout will not have any protection in the lineup. 

Right, but there are players in recent decades who did face those pitchers and remained good past 35. 

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, TempeAngel said:

I wonder what % of pitchers threw 95 in 1962 versus now in 2022? Did you have 2 or 3 on each team then and 6 or 7 on each team now?

That sounds like a question for Bill James.

[Sully151]

4 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Mays and Aaron did not face pitchers throwing 95 to 100 all the time. Different era now plus with shifts. 

This narrative gets thrown around a lot, and I get it, but Mays, Aaron, Mantle, etc. didn’t have the training regimens, the trainers, physical therapists, the iPads in the dugout,  the scouting, and all of the other modern luxuries that today’s hitters have.

[Angelsjunky]

4 minutes ago, Sully151 said:

This narrative gets thrown around a lot, and I get it, but Mays, Aaron, Mantle, etc. didn’t have the training regimens, the trainers, physical therapists, the iPads in the dugout,  the scouting, and all of the other modern luxuries that today’s hitters have.

Yeah. Plus, hitters also evolve. It isn't like pitchers have gradually gotten the edge over hitters. If the MPH was the only factor, we'd see offensive numbers gradually decline--they don't, or rather they oscillate--and we'd also see players declining earlier. That simply doesn't seem to be the case, even if you ignore the Roid Era.

That's how baseball evolves: Pitchers get better, hitters adjust. Rinse and repeat. By and large, various factors like player decline have remained relatively consistent.

 

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yeah. Plus, hitters also evolve. It isn't like pitchers have gradually gotten the edge over hitters. If the MPH was the only factor, we'd see offensive numbers gradually decline--they don't, or rather they oscillate--and we'd also see players declining earlier. That simply doesn't seem to be the case, even if you ignore the Roid Era.

That's how baseball evolves: Pitchers get better, hitters adjust. Rinse and repeat. By and large, various factors like player decline have remained relatively consistent.

 

The game has evolved into so many more strikeouts. Pitchers are bigger and throw harder. Pitchers used to throw complete games that does not happen now. Teams had 4-man rotations now 5 and 6. Many hit 300 not now. 

[Angelsjunky]

57 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

The game has evolved into so many more strikeouts. Pitchers are bigger and throw harder. Pitchers used to throw complete games that does not happen now. Teams had 4-man rotations now 5 and 6. Many hit 300 not now. 

Yes, but the only real big difference, as far as hitters are concerned, is an increase in strikeouts. There are also fewer outlying high batting averages, at least since the Roid Era ended, but I think that has more to do with increased bullpen usage (fresher pitchers all game long) than increased velocity.