How much influence did Maddon have on the current roster?

[Docwaukee]

not a poll.  Just like to get people's thoughts.  Could the firing have been a culmination of many things or was it merely a knee jerk to a losing streak and Perry trying to scapegoat him for all of the problems.  Ones, of course, that are unlikely to get fixed mid season.  My thought is that Maddon had a lot more influence on the opening day roster and when it fell apart, Perry was pissed and convinced Arte that it was mostly Joe's fault.  How else would he get Arte to fire his buddy?  That's my story and I'm going with it until about this time next season.  

[mmc]

The firing was simple to me, Maddon wasn't getting extended, the team wasn't playing well, do you go with him the rest of the year anyways, when you know in all likelihood, you're just going to let him go, or do you attempt to turn the season around, knowing even if you don't, Maddon wasn't going to be back anyways?

[eligrba]

All I know is that Eppler never made the team worse while he was the GM.  Granted he never made the Angels better, but he seemed to maintain a predictable level of mediocrity.  I miss the predictable mediocrity.

[mmc]

6 minutes ago, eligrba said:

All I know is that Eppler never made the team worse while he was the GM.  Granted he never made the Angels better, but he seemed to maintain a predictable level of mediocrity.  I miss the predictable mediocrity.

Lol, 2016 was the worst Angels team since 1999, and then after 2 better seasons in 17-18, and 2019 was a decline from 2018 and then 2020 a decline from that.  Perry's 2021 was a better team than Eppler's 2020

[eligrba]

3 minutes ago, mmc said:

Lol, 2016 was the worst Angels team since 1999, and then after 2 better seasons in 17-18, and 2019 was a decline from 2018 and then 2020 a decline from that.  Perry's 2021 was a better team than Eppler's 2020

This is the worse team since Arte took over ownership.  Minasian managed to do it in less than two years with increasing the payroll.   The only club with a greater decline this season are the Athletics. 

Eppler's teams were mediocre, just various degrees of mediocrity within the range of +1/-1 standard deviation for mediocrity.

[tomsred]

Firing Maddon was a purely emotional decision by Minasian.  He replaced an experienced, and previously successful manager with an inexperienced one on a spur of the moment decision.  Minasian created this problem in the past off season by the choices he made.  He needs to be held accountable.  It's purely Arte's decision if he wants to continue to give him chances to improve this team.  Personally, I would not.  Can this organization hire an experienced, not first time, GM for a change who has a good track record in that position?  I think they want to control a weaker GM, not a strong willed good one.  They keep cheaping out on GM's.  The last one who was a strong leader was Stoneman, many moons ago.

[mmc]

3 minutes ago, eligrba said:

This is the worse team since Arte took over ownership.  Minasian managed to do it in less than two years with increasing the payroll.   The only club with a greater decline this season are the Athletics. 

Eppler's teams were mediocre, just various degrees of mediocrity within the range of +1/-1 standard deviation for mediocrity.

Ok but it's just factually incorrect to say the team never got worse under Eppler

[mmc]

This "Maddon shouldn't have been fired" stuff is hilarious after how badly this place wanted him gone since the middle of last season.  Can't wait for all the "Nevin should've been kept as the full manager" posts after he gets replaced in the offseason

[stormngt]

34 minutes ago, mmc said:

The firing was simple to me, Maddon wasn't getting extended, the team wasn't playing well, do you go with him the rest of the year anyways, when you know in all likelihood, you're just going to let him go, or do you attempt to turn the season around, knowing even if you don't, Maddon wasn't going to be back anyways?

Exactly.  The firing was a desperate attempt to reverse the teans directions.

However, since Maddon was in his last year and an extension was not going to happen, the move didn't cost the Angels anything. 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, tomsred said:

Firing Maddon was a purely emotional decision by Minasian.  He replaced an experienced, and previously successful manager with an inexperienced one on a spur of the moment decision.  Minasian created this problem in the past off season by the choices he made.  He needs to be held accountable.  It's purely Arte's decision if he wants to continue to give him chances to improve this team.  Personally, I would not.  Can this organization hire an experienced, not first time, GM for a change who has a good track record in that position?  I think they want to control a weaker GM, not a strong willed good one.  They keep cheaping out on GM's.  The last one who was a strong leader was Stoneman, many moons ago.

No Tom it wasn’t purely emotional. The dude stepped on his dick enough times to be gone. 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, mmc said:

Ok but it's just factually incorrect to say the team never got worse under Eppler

Context is important 

[mmc]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Context is important 

You respond within 10 minutes of me making any post negative about Eppler.  It's really cute.

[budice0]

I have no doubt Maddon knew exactly what he was walking into when he agreed to Manage the Angels.  It was a nice short-term payday with a team that has organizational issues.  He knew the team, roster, and farm system were challenged.  Few moves were made to help that.  Basically clearing dead money off the payroll over the last couple years.  Plus he has ties to Scioscia and obviously knew what happened to him.

 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, mmc said:

You respond within 10 minutes of me making any post negative about Eppler.  It's really cute.

Yea my bad that I post in a message board that I’ve been apart of since you were 5.  

[Stradling]

But like I said context is important. Oh and I don’t think this team on paper is worse than any of Eppler’s teams. 

[mmc]

Just now, Stradling said:

Yea my bad that I post in a message board that I’ve been apart of since you were 5.  

Nope, it's just pretty cringeworthy that you and many others on this site feel a constant need to defend him at every opportunity.  Guy was as shit as his job as many other people who worked for this organization (I actually think he was better at his job than people like Arte, Maddon, and Ausmus), we don't need to pretend he took this team anywhere.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, mmc said:

Nope, it's just pretty cringeworthy that you and many others on this site feel a constant need to defend him at every opportunity.  Guy was as shit as his job as many other people who worked for this organization (I actually think he was better at his job than people like Arte, Maddon, and Ausmus), we don't need to pretend he took this team anywhere.

Ok if you were a GM would you rather take over the team and farm that Eppler took over or the one Minasian took over?  It’s a very easy choice. 

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, mmc said:

Nope, it's just pretty cringeworthy that you and many others on this site feel a constant need to defend him at every opportunity.  Guy was as shit as his job as many other people who worked for this organization (I actually think he was better at his job than people like Arte, Maddon, and Ausmus), we don't need to pretend he took this team anywhere.

so the defense against hyperbole such as this is cringeworthy but the extremist rhetoric isn't?   He's the only of our last 4 gms that has actually improved the org as a whole.  Jury still out on Perry.  Yes, Eppler didn't improve the major league club as much as he had an opportunity to but right now, he's the only guy to have left a better situation for his successor than he started with.  

And the people defending him have acknowledged his shortcomings and why he got fired.  Have you even remotely acknowledged that he took scorched earth that Jerry left and actually brought overall value?  

[eligrba]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

But like I said context is important. Oh and I don’t think this team on paper is worse than any of Eppler’s teams. 

And there is the mystery. How do the Angels get what's on paper to translate to the ball field? Or, has every other team improved more than expected and the Angels are actually playing to what's on paper?

[mmc]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok if you were a GM would you rather take over the team and farm that Eppler took over or the one Minasian took over?  It’s a very easy choice. 

This is a hilarious rebuttal to 5 losing seasons.  Let me ask you this question, how many more would you give him a pass for?  Everyone on this site knows Eppler had a nonexistent farm when he took over, he still did absolutely nothing to progress the team

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, mmc said:

This is a hilarious rebuttal to 5 losing seasons.  Let me ask you this question, how many more would you give him a pass for?  Everyone on this site knows Eppler had a nonexistent farm when he took over, he still did absolutely nothing to progress the team

what?  take a look at the roster and ask yourself what's good about it and who is responsible for that.  Vs.  what's not and who is responsible for that.  

[mmc]

4 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

so the defense against hyperbole such as this is cringeworthy but the extremist rhetoric isn't?   He's the only of our last 4 gms that has actually improved the org as a whole.  Jury still out on Perry.  Yes, Eppler didn't improve the major league club as much as he had an opportunity to but right now, he's the only guy to have left a better situation for his successor than he started with.  

And the people defending him have acknowledged his shortcomings and why he got fired.  Have you even remotely acknowledged that he took scorched earth that Jerry left and actually brought overall value?  

If “improving the organization as whole” despite it leading us to nothing but losing is something you want to defend, be my guest, not something I’m going to do though 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, mmc said:

This is a hilarious rebuttal to 5 losing seasons.  Let me ask you this question, how many more would you give him a pass for?  Everyone on this site knows Eppler had a nonexistent farm when he took over, he still did absolutely nothing to progress the team

Oh so we agree, context is important. Also you chose not to answer the question. I wonder why.  

[Docwaukee]

Just now, mmc said:

If “improving the organization as whole” despite it leading us to nothing but losing is something you want to defend, be my guest, not something I’m going to do though 

if you thought the mlb club was in a spot to suddenly start winning when he took over and you'd like to defend that then be my guest.  

[mmc]

Just now, Stradling said:

Oh so we agree, context is important. Also you chose not to answer the question. I wonder why.  

I gave more of an answer to yours than you did to mine