Angels comparison question

[Torridd]

Do you know if there are any teams that have as many needs as the Angels right now (catcher/pitching) who are considered high/midmarket? I'm just wondering if I'm wrong that management may not be aggressive enough.

[Angelsjunky]

But the Angels don't have a ton of "needs."  They need a catcher, but they  don't really need another starter. They could certainly use one--and possibly a veteran reliever--but they have solid rotation depth, and I don't really think its fair to say that a #1-2 is a "need" because then almost every team "needs" one. A need is something you have to have to field a competitive team - they've got most everything.

[Stradling]

So when the Angels sign a catcher which is going to happen they’ll have one need.  Cool. 

[kevinb]

Asking for a friend do other teams have this many future Hall of Famers on their team as the Angels do? Trout, Pujols, Ohtani, Simmons, and Rendon. Pitching is already light years ahead of where we were last year and with some luck and better health should be a top 15 rotation as it stands today. Offense should be top 10 or top 5 and as we know relief pitching fluctuates yearly so we are as good as any team to have a top 5 bullpen. mid market/ big market doesn't make a difference this team is a playoff team next year regardless of another move made. With more additions to the line up and/or rotation it just makes this team that much stronger. 

[Justin]

3 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Asking for a friend do other teams have this many future Hall of Famers on their team as the Angels do? Trout, Pujols, Ohtani, Simmons, and Rendon.

Tell your friend the Angels do not have as many future Hall of Famers as he or she thinks. 

[Pancake Bear]

4 minutes ago, RBM said:

If you were to lay out the 26 man roster right now. The only need I see is at catcher.  I look at it as musts vs. wants. The Angels must get a catcher. The Angels still want to upgrade their pitching.

After catcher who knows. Maybe Eppler will make a trade using some of the redundancies he has at 2B and 3B and prospects to acquire more pitching. Maybe he signs another FA.

Yeah, they’re getting a catcher. Only question is how long before ST.

I think a trade for pitching likely happens. I don’t think it’s something they push. Could happen pre ST, could happen during the season. I think there’s a slight chance they go for Walker or Wood. If they do, the chances of a trade before ST drops considerably. 

[Pancake Bear]

9 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Asking for a friend do other teams have this many future Hall of Famers on their team as the Angels do? Trout, Pujols, Ohtani, Simmons, and Rendon. Pitching is already light years ahead of where we were last year and with some luck and better health should be a top 15 rotation as it stands today. Offense should be top 10 or top 5 and as we know relief pitching fluctuates yearly so we are as good as any team to have a top 5 bullpen. mid market/ big market doesn't make a difference this team is a playoff team next year regardless of another move made. With more additions to the line up and/or rotation it just makes this team that much stronger. 

 

5 minutes ago, SoPas Angel said:

Tell your friend the Angels do not have as many future Hall of Famers as he or she thinks. 

Simmons doesn’t have the offensive numbers at all. He’s a fair bit better defensively than Vizquel, but he needs to longevity to have even a shot.

Ohtani is way too early to speculate on. He’s also probably not going to have the big counting totals that voters look for on pitching or hitting. His unusual status might carry him through, but I think we need another ten years to find that out. 

Rendon would have to age like Beltre to have a borderline case. He debuted too late and is reportedly planning to retire around age 35.

[Angel Oracle]

Wood and either Chirinos or Castro

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Wood and either Chirinos or Castro

Castro is the winner

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, SoPas Angel said:

Tell your friend the Angels do not have as many future Hall of Famers as he or she thinks. 

Trout and Pujols are locks

Ohtani if he is above average as a pitcher and hitter

Simmons, probably not.  

Rendon?  

[Torridd]

16 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

But the Angels don't have a ton of "needs."  They need a catcher, but they  don't really need another starter. They could certainly use one--and possibly a veteran reliever--but they have solid rotation depth, and I don't really think its fair to say that a #1-2 is a "need" because then almost every team "needs" one. A need is something you have to have to field a competitive team - they've got most everything.

So you think the Angels are competitive as they currently stand?

[Blarg]

16 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

 

Simmons doesn’t have the offensive numbers at all. He’s a fair bit better defensively than Vizquel, but he needs to longevity to have even a shot.

Simmons career he is a 91 OPS+ hitter

Ozzie Smith was a 87 OPS+ hitter

Simmons definitely has a shot since his defense is off the charts. 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Torridd said:

So you think the Angels are competitive as they currently stand?

Yes as they stand they’re probably 85+ wins.  

[UndertheHalo]

It’s a different time.  He hasn’t played on good teams in a time when offense is absolutely king.  I don’t think Simmons has any shot at the hall of fame. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

Simmons career he is a 91 OPS+ hitter

Ozzie Smith was a 87 OPS+ hitter

Simmons definitely has a shot since his defense is off the charts. 

I was thinking the same thing. Ozzie Smith was a fair hitter but an amazing defender. Andrelton Simmons is nearly his equal defensively, and especially since he has come west has been productive offensively. I wouldn't so quickly dismiss him as a HOF candidate.

[tdawg87]

I would say Simmons has a shot but he has to stay healthy. Ozzie Smith was a weak hitter but he still accumulated nearly 2500 hits and over 500 SB. 

fWAR also hasn't been kind to Simmons. He needs 10 years of 4+ WAR seasons to match Ozzie in that regard. Even using bWAR he needs the same production.

[Stradling]

Ozzie has a solid .337 OBP for his career as well. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 1/2/2020 at 1:52 PM, Pancake Bear said:

 

Simmons doesn’t have the offensive numbers at all. He’s a fair bit better defensively than Vizquel, but he needs to longevity to have even a shot.

Ohtani is way too early to speculate on. He’s also probably not going to have the big counting totals that voters look for on pitching or hitting. His unusual status might carry him through, but I think we need another ten years to find that out. 

Rendon would have to age like Beltre to have a borderline case. He debuted too late and is reportedly planning to retire around age 35.

Reference ohtani. Regardless of how his career numbers end... if he truly can sustain being an average SP, and an average hitter.... which barring injury is his floor... he'll get in the hall for sure.

[Angelsjunky]

On 1/3/2020 at 3:52 AM, Torridd said:

So you think the Angels are competitive as they currently stand?

I agree with Stradling: as they currently stand, they're an 85-90 win team, which is pretty competitive, just not dominant. Meaning, with a bit of luck they could win 92+ games and make it to the playoffs.

For me the over/under is 87-75. Anything below that and more went wrong than right. Above that and more went right than wrong.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Angelsjunky

[Tank]

it'll be an interesting discussion once Simmons retires and all the evidence is in. I think it would certainly bolster his case to be in the playoffs a few more times (which is something I think probably helped Ozzie).

[DCAngelsFan]

On 1/3/2020 at 9:25 AM, Blarg said:

Simmons career he is a 91 OPS+ hitter

Ozzie Smith was a 87 OPS+ hitter

Simmons definitely has a shot since his defense is off the charts. 

hmm, Smith had career 76.9 WAR, and a 44.2 dWAR over 19 seasons.

Simmons has a career 36.9 WAR, and a 27.3 dWAR over 8 seasons.

The average HOF SS has 67 WAR.

If Simmons can play, say, another 8 seasons, puts up 30+ WAR, and/or 22+ dWAR, he'll have a solid case.

It's a stretch - definitely not yet - but a few more years of elite defense, he enters the conversation. 

Unlikely he does it - but if he stays healthy and in elite form, he has a chance.