If things had gone differently this off season.....

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

 

Only i already have on more than one occasion. 

Cool, copy and paste. 

[totdprods]

This thread feels like it has excellent potential to be bumped in 10 months once the Angels advance to the ALCS on the heels of a 98 win season, an Adell ROY, a Trout MVP, breakout seasons by Skaggs and Ward, and rebounds from Lucroy, Cozart, and Harvey.

Keep it up guys!

[floplag]

37 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

link?

 

29 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Cool, copy and paste. 

You guys really dont read what other people post do you...   oh well, no matter.  

[Stradling]

So you don’t know who you suggested they sign, for how much and for how long, before they signed with someone else?   

[Blarg]

Look, how about we talk about the subject rather than a constant game of pin the tail on the donkey. 

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

This thread feels like it has excellent potential to be bumped in 10 months once the Angels advance to the ALCS on the heels of a 98 win season, an Adell ROY, a Trout MVP, breakout seasons by Skaggs and Ward, and rebounds from Lucroy, Cozart, and Harvey.

Keep it up guys!

and Calhoun.  

[Inside Pitch]

55 minutes ago, floplag said:

You guys really dont read what other people post do you...   oh well, no matter.  

[Lou]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

This thread feels like it has excellent potential to be bumped in 10 months once the Angels advance to the ALCS on the heels of a 98 win season, an Adell ROY, a Trout MVP, breakout seasons by Skaggs and Ward, and rebounds from Lucroy, Cozart, and Harvey.

Keep it up guys!

 

26 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

and Calhoun.  

 

not 1 brown guy..

 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yea, Scotty, I disagree with the notion that because he is signing guys to one year deals that that means that is what he will do in 2020.  I’m not sure the offense will be boring this season.  When you start an offense with 3 plus offensive players in Trout, Ohtani and Upton and then you get Simmons it will probably be a league average or better offense.  May not be pretty but it won’t be as bad as some think.  The cost of free agency this year has gone way up annually, just for shorter term deals.  Since that is the case and we pretty much knew they would have a budget, it isn’t a real surprise the direction they went with.  when guys are still getting $15 million for a sub 3 WAR season, you know it will be a tougher off season.  As for making the trades you speak all the time about waiting for the prospects to have peak value.  That is all Eppler is doing.  Marsh isn’t at peak value.  Jones might be.  It is time to let guys like Ward and Fletcher play.  If Adell pushes his way into the line up good, I guess.  I personally would rather see Kole return to being a 3 WAR player and trade him at the deadline.  I’d like to get Adell another year of development in the minors.  I get what you are saying, but we are absolutely seeing a change in the way front offices do business, last year wasn’t a fluke.  

You missed the point Strad. Nowhere did it say that because the Angels signed one year deals in 2019 that they will do the same in 2020. In fact I specifically said there is little difference between different paths because in 2020 and beyond the team will be successful regardless.

No one is advocating we trade Jones and Marsh right now, I have no idea where you pulled that from but I think it's best you put it back. 

And what about last year did anyone call a fluke? 

It's like I said one thing and that turned into an entirely off topic tangent. So, allow me to clarify. I believe that signing players to 2-3 year deal would not have harmed the team,but created a more balanced team and healthier long term outlook because prospects would've offset the risk and financial strain. 2020 and beyond will be fine regardless. But 2019, could have been better set up, as long as they didn't make high dollar free agent splashes. And really, I'd be fine with the team as long as they're able to add a Moustakas level bat to the middle of the lineup.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

10 hours ago, Stradling said:

Hey @floplag, what does it matter if they haven’t filled those holes after the upcoming years as long as they fill them before those seasons?  Wouldn’t it make more sense to go year to year in a free agent class that isn’t that strong?  If you can get a guy that performs each year versus overpaying guys for 3-4 years in hopes that you don’t have to replace them in year 3-4.  For example, if the Angels didn’t give Kole his contract don’t you think they would have upgraded RF this off season instead of paying him $10 million and hope he bounces back?  If you can get guys on one year deals, there is little to no risk until the farm starts to develop talent for the major league team.  This is the second year in a row that we are seeing older guys get 1-2 year deals and they can still be productive players.  

The new guy every year idea is like buying 5 lottery scratchers!

At least the CA Lottery has a second chance drawing!

I'm not a huge fan of 1 year deals. Sure there is less risk. But, you also may miss out on a once in a lifetime season within a multi year deal if you are only signing guys for 1 year deals and then the next year they move on and hit the jackpot.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

 

You guys really dont read what other people post do you...   oh well, no matter.  

yep.  I didn't read what you posted.  Can you post it again?  Sorry for the hardship, but I'd love to see it.  

[jessecrall]

Eppler & Co. might be betting on prospects being ready sooner than we expect which could make 3-year deals unappealing. The 2021 lineup could very well be:

Jones - 2B

Marsh - RF

Trout - CF

Ohtani - DH

Adell - LF

Upton - 1B

Simmons - SS

Zero Idea- C

Fletcher/Rengifo - 3B

Plus: Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Suarez, Barria, Soriano & Sandoval in line.

Maybe Simmons doesn't get extended, Trout probably does, Adams & Knowles are knocking on the door...I imagine one or two of the above spots are taken up by a free agent or major trade acquisition. But the plan likely involves a lot of now-18-22-year-old players Eppler expects to be both productive and inexpensive and he doesn't seem to show any willingness to delay their arrival just to win a few extra games this year. The aggressive promotions of guys like Adell, Canning and Jones are telling. 

[Docwaukee]

27 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

The new guy every year idea is like buying 5 lottery scratchers!

At least the CA Lottery has a second chance drawing!

I'm not a huge fan of 1 year deals. Sure there is less risk. But, you also may miss out on a once in a lifetime season within a multi year deal if you are only signing guys for 1 year deals and then the next year they move on and hit the jackpot.

or you get the once in a lifetime season from the 1yr deal and the player otherwise stinks.  It would have been nice to have a couple of option years, but there are no bad 1yr deals.  

[totdprods]

13 hours ago, Lou said:

not 1 brown guy..

Our brown guys are already good.

[totdprods]

13 hours ago, Dochalo said:

and Calhoun.  

Knowing our luck, he'll have a crazy career season, the Angels won't promote Adell as playing time never emerges, then we pick up Kole's contract for 2020 and watch him struggle deep into July while Adell hit's 35 HR in SLC by the break. 

[Lou]

13 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Our brown guys are already good.

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Knowing our luck, he'll have a crazy career season, the Angels won't promote Adell as playing time never emerges, then we pick up Kole's contract for 2020 and watch him struggle deep into July while Adell hit's 35 HR in SLC by the break. 

that option year is as good as gone.  no chance we exercise that.  Brantley is a way better player and got 2/32

[Second Base]

12 hours ago, jessecrall said:

Eppler & Co. might be betting on prospects being ready sooner than we expect which could make 3-year deals unappealing. The 2021 lineup could very well be:

Jones - 2B

Marsh - RF

Trout - CF

Ohtani - DH

Adell - LF

Upton - 1B

Simmons - SS

Zero Idea- C

Fletcher/Rengifo - 3B

Plus: Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Suarez, Barria, Soriano & Sandoval in line.

Maybe Simmons doesn't get extended, Trout probably does, Adams & Knowles are knocking on the door...I imagine one or two of the above spots are taken up by a free agent or major trade acquisition. But the plan likely involves a lot of now-18-22-year-old players Eppler expects to be both productive and inexpensive and he doesn't seem to show any willingness to delay their arrival just to win a few extra games this year. The aggressive promotions of guys like Adell, Canning and Jones are telling. 

 Pretty much exactly what I've been writing since 2016.

[angelsnationtalk]

13 hours ago, Second Base said:

You missed the point Strad. Nowhere did it say that because the Angels signed one year deals in 2019 that they will do the same in 2020. In fact I specifically said there is little difference between different paths because in 2020 and beyond the team will be successful regardless.

No one is advocating we trade Jones and Marsh right now, I have no idea where you pulled that from but I think it's best you put it back. 

And what about last year did anyone call a fluke? 

It's like I said one thing and that turned into an entirely off topic tangent. So, allow me to clarify. I believe that signing players to 2-3 year deal would not have harmed the team,but created a more balanced team and healthier long term outlook because prospects would've offset the risk and financial strain. 2020 and beyond will be fine regardless. But 2019, could have been better set up, as long as they didn't make high dollar free agent splashes. And really, I'd be fine with the team as long as they're able to add a Moustakas level bat to the middle of the lineup.

100% Agree that we could have been better for 2019. Another thing that I truly believe is Eppler is waiting for the next offseason. Adell, Rengifo, Thaiss, and possibly (maybe) Jones will be ready to go come 2020. Our system doesn't have any prospect for 3B aside from Ward who could become trade bait. Believe me, I was extremely upset with the Angels making all these 1 year deals this year but I also realize that Harvey, Cahill and Lucroy are low risk reward players that give us a super small and tiny chance at competing, and if not, they become options to trade to a competing team that would return us with prospect depth. Pretty much the same way Kinsler and Maldonado brought us back Sandoval and Buttrey.

This leads me to believe that Nolan Arenado could be on the Angels' radar and we could use the surplus of infield prospects plus a starting pitcher to make a trade for a catcher like Realmuto (if the value drops and he's still a Marlin which likely won't happen but I can dream). At some point, we will have a ton of prospects all competing for infield positions and if we extend Simmons, then we really have extra prospects to move around. But this, of course, is when the time is right. Unfortunately, it isn't this offseason. It starts next offseason. 

So what it all comes down to is the fact that Eppler firmly believes in building from within the system. This means young guys with great potential that ALSO cost nothing more than league minimum for 3 years and a little more for the next 3 years. With that happening, Eppler can really "use our financial might to fill the holes" like he's stated. Which means Calhoun and Cozart are also moveable pieces (if they add value to themselves this year). That alone could save us around $26M to move towards Arenado and we still stay under our internal $180M budget. 

We aren't happy about this year because we're not about to blow past the Astros in the division..... But we're happier knowing that instead of wasting talent in 2019 to win for one year, we're playing smart to win from 2020-2026 and beyond with internal and external talent. 

Stay patient. 

[Docwaukee]

the more this off season develops, the more I'm ok with the route Billy has taken.  I don't like the Corbin deal.  I don't like the Kikuchi deal.  We were never going to get Machado or Harper.  No chance I want to see them spend on Keuchel.  Don't think it would have been wise to pay Happ what he got.  Or Morton.  Considering their age.  Eovaldi got paid for what he did in the playoffs.  The Lance Lynn deal is going to be a disaster.  Miller, Familia, Kelly, Soria?  Donaldson, Murphy?  Richards, Sanchez?  The only deal I felt was a fit for us was Ramos and he wanted to play for the Mets.  Or the Suzuki deal.  Neither of which are likely to change our 2019 fate substantially.  

There's still value out there and I think Billy will make some minor moves but nothing that will jump off the page.  

At this point, I am more interested in getting Trout extension talks going.  The sooner Machado and Harper sign, then maybe I'll start to get interested again.  

[WeatherWonk]

I'm tiring of the "what if" threads, that always point to a rosier next year than the one previous. This is the third off season in a row, with the same result.  We have several "what if" threads going right now. And a dearth of "can't wait" or "now that" threads. Also plenty of "just missed out" threads, with the usual excuses of why a player didn't sign here or why we didnt need him, anyway. . 

IF my aunt had nads, she'd be my uncle.

Hoping our IFs turn to WHENs, on AW, at some point. 

 

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

I'm tiring of the "what if" threads, that always point to a rosier next year than the one previous. This is the third off season in a row, with the same result.  We have several "what if" threads going right now. And a dearth of "can't wait" or "now that" threads. Also plenty of "just missed out" threads, with the usual excuses of why a player didn't sign here or why we didnt need him, anyway. . 

IF my aunt had nads, she'd be my uncle.

Hoping our IFs turn to WHENs, on AW, at some point. 

Almost all baseball players and teams are what ifs.

[WeatherWonk]

12 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Almost all baseball players and teams are what ifs.

Granted.

But this is too many "what ifs" for a team that has been in the top ten in payroll for forever.

Time for results, not wishin' and hopin'.

[Slegnaac]

2019 could have been better. 

How long until pitchers and catchers report for 2020?

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Granted.

But this is too many "what ifs" for a team that has been in the top ten in payroll for forever.

Time for results, not wishin' and hopin'.

What ifs and hopes is all were going to get for 19 barring some late surprises.   Anything can happen... if things go perfectly we could sniff a wild card run though realistic projections suggest we will fall short of that. 

According to Fangraphs were projected at about 84 wins with the last wild card teams coming in at 86 (TB).  I actually thought it would take more before reading that at near 90.  A couple of games isnt exactly a mountain to overcome had we been a little more aggressive.