Bleacher Report Ranks Angels Farm System at #18

[Chris]

For me Angelswin.com ranking system > all the other ranking systems

Eppler > Dipoto / Reagins

Glad to see the Angels organization moving in a positive direction

 

 

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

This is why I would like them to do re-rankings 5-7 years later.  So BA or whoever can say, after further review the Angels farm in 2012 should have been ranked 5th or whatever it would amount too.  My issue with the ranking system is what you’ve brought up a few times Scotty. I don’t like that most rankings are too heavily graded on having that one star in the system.  Rather than a collection of really solid major league players that may not be All Stars or MVPs but they are everyday players or solid pitchers. 

And to be fair, we have a solid mix. Ohtani, Maitan, Adell and Marsh have that superstar upside. Jones, Canning, Barria and Hermosillo will be solid regulars.

We even have a few wild cards that could end up being something. Fernandez and Houchins.

We even have lottery tickets like Deveaux and Hunter Jr.

This farm has a lot of options.

[Stradling]

I hate that Ohtani is considered a prospect it’s just dumb. 

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

the way they over value and obsess over the yankees and dodgers prospects is such laughable BS

The fact those prospects from previous rankings are successful in the majors leads me to believe that they are not valueing them.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Why?  Eppler has jettisoned enough of the Dipoto guys.  If he thought Baldo was that bad he’d be gone.  The money has already been spent on him. 

True, partly meant in jest

[AngelsFanSince86]

I find it interesting that Maitan is ranked ahead of Adell.  Adell is considered by most I have read to be at the top of the 2017 draft class in terms of raw talent.  He has done very well in his limited playing time.  Maitan didn't do so well and I've read mixed reviews on how scouts feel about him now.  Yet, he is essentialy listed as our top prospect since Ohtani is hardly a prospect.  

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

I find it interesting that Maitan is ranked ahead of Adell.  Adell is considered by most I have read to be at the top of the 2017 draft class in terms of raw talent.  He has done very well in his limited playing time.  Maitan didn't do so well and I've read mixed reviews on how scouts feel about him now.  Yet, he is essentialy listed as our top prospect since Ohtani is hardly a prospect.  

Which is another one of Scotty's gripes that I agree with on farm rankings.  They heavily favor big names or big dollar guys.  Also the unknown of a foreign player seems to rank higher than a high school kid.

[Second Base]

14 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

I find it interesting that Maitan is ranked ahead of Adell.  Adell is considered by most I have read to be at the top of the 2017 draft class in terms of raw talent.  He has done very well in his limited playing time.  Maitan didn't do so well and I've read mixed reviews on how scouts feel about him now.  Yet, he is essentialy listed as our top prospect since Ohtani is hardly a prospect.  

He doesn't rank higher on our list though.  Still high, but collectively, AW agreed upon ranking him at #5.  And really that comes down to personal philosophy.  I favor loud tools, upside and what I see personally.  Others favor proximity to the majors.  We fortunately have a mix of that.  It's a good thing, I feel. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

This is why I would like them to do re-rankings 5-7 years later.  So BA or whoever can say, after further review the Angels farm in 2012 should have been ranked 5th or whatever it would amount too.  My issue with the ranking system is what you’ve brought up a few times Scotty. I don’t like that most rankings are too heavily graded on having that one star in the system.  Rather than a collection of really solid major league players that may not be All Stars or MVPs but they are everyday players or solid pitchers. 

Most of the rankings are based on the writers ability to dream on a prospect. When a guy is in AAA and looks poised to be an average-ish major leaguer they won't get the rating that some lower level guys with a lot of hype will get - even if those guys are likely to flame out.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I hate that Ohtani is considered a prospect it’s just dumb. 

I kinda get this opinion, but at the same time, the dude is just 23 and has never played a single game in the major leagues. I don't think anyone knows what we have in him just yet, even if he is more polished than most prospects.

[AngelsLakersFan]

15 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

He doesn't rank higher on our list though.  Still high, but collectively, AW agreed upon ranking him at #5.  And really that comes down to personal philosophy.  I favor loud tools, upside and what I see personally.  Others favor proximity to the majors.  We fortunately have a mix of that.  It's a good thing, I feel. 

I think 5 is a pretty fair ranking. It makes sense to dock guys for being really far away from the major leagues. We don't see enough of that on lists, and that leads to most of these rankings being based off of hype that will never be realized. There is plenty of reason to knock Maitan down for a poor showing in his debut as well, while also giving someone like Adell credit for how well he came to play.

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I kinda get this opinion, but at the same time, the dude is just 23 and has never played a single game in the major leagues. I don't think anyone knows what we have in him just yet, even if he is more polished than most prospects.

Bottom line is if he is with the big club on day one and I think everyone expects that, then he really had no affect on our farm system.  His spot on the roster was not going to be filled internally by a prospect.  Just like I don't think putting Trop at AAA to start the season gives us a better farm.  It is just my opinion, but that is how I feel about it.

[Dtwncbad]

But an organization's ability to manage the Ohtani process and land him says something about the organization.

Not sure where to file that but including that value in its "farm" ranking isn't exactly wrong.

Farm system success is partly negotiation, like getting a draft pick to commit and sign rather than head to college.

It's a square peg in a round hole, but there is no square hole.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

But an organization's ability to manage the Ohtani process and land him says something about the organization.

Not sure where to file that but including that value in its "farm" ranking isn't exactly wrong.

Farm system success is partly negotiation, like getting a draft pick to commit and sign rather than head to college.

It's a square peg in a round hole, but there is no square hole.

Yea, I certainly don't disagree with that.  The ability to get the guy you want in the draft at the price you want says so much about Eppler's ability to persuade.  Those are the same traits he will use to extend Trout.  

[Dtwncbad]

These rankings can be used to judge how competent teams are in developing talent level to level, but they are also used to get an idea which teams have impact help on the way to the major league roster.

At a glance when people see the Braves ranking, they think "Wow the Braves will have an influx of talent. . ."

Ohtani is an influx of talent, yes as soon as opening day.

But that value probably should be shown in these rankings.

An asterisk may apply, but I don't see it as wrong.

[Chuck]

Every minor leaguer that's up with the big league club is still a prospect until they've reached at least 100 at bats I believe. Some view more, some a little less. Same goes for pitchers with IP, GS and GA's. 

So even if our top 5 prospects all made the club out of ST, they'd still be considered "the farm" or a "prospect" until they've reached their qualification limit. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

53 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

He doesn't rank higher on our list though.  Still high, but collectively, AW agreed upon ranking him at #5.  And really that comes down to personal philosophy.  I favor loud tools, upside and what I see personally.  Others favor proximity to the majors.  We fortunately have a mix of that.  It's a good thing, I feel. 

Yeah I guess I didn't specify.  I've seen the MLB and now BR rankings of the Angels top 30 and Maitan is second behind Ohtani in both.  I agree with the AngelsWin rankings.  Thats kind of the point I'm making and is based off of something you said.  Maitan came from the Braves and despite all things pointing to him being ranked lower, "outsiders" view him as our top guy (excluding Ohtani) meaning they are automatically undervaluing our prospects.  Especially given what I have read from MLB.com and BR regarding both Maitan and Adell.  Based on their opinions of the two players you would think they favor Adell, but then they rank Maitan higher.

[Stradling]

22 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

These rankings can be used to judge how competent teams are in developing talent level to level, but they are also used to get an idea which teams have impact help on the way to the major league roster.

At a glance when people see the Braves ranking, they think "Wow the Braves will have an influx of talent. . ."

Ohtani is an influx of talent, yes as soon as opening day.

But that value probably should be shown in these rankings.

An asterisk may apply, but I don't see it as wrong.

I see it as a trade or a free agent signing.  If we signed Darvish it would have no impact on our farm system, to me they are the same.  

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I see it as a trade or a free agent signing.  If we signed Darvish it would have no impact on our farm system, to me they are the same.  

No because Ohtani comes to the roster financially and control wise just as a graduating prospect.

Darvish wpuld come to the roster with amassive financial obligation.

Having Ohtani means you need fewer cheap prospects on the way.  Darvish means you need more.

I see them as exact opposites in those terms.

[eaterfan]

1 hour ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

I find it interesting that Maitan is ranked ahead of Adell.  Adell is considered by most I have read to be at the top of the 2017 draft class in terms of raw talent.  He has done very well in his limited playing time.  Maitan didn't do so well and I've read mixed reviews on how scouts feel about him now.  Yet, he is essentialy listed as our top prospect since Ohtani is hardly a prospect.  

I think Maitan was viewed as a generational talent like a Bryce Harper. He was compared as a hitter to Miguel Cabrera and has a small change to stay at SS or more likely be a good 3B. Obviously, he didn't adjust and scouts disagree on his ceiling now. But for those who think he can still hot like that then his ceiling is sky high. 

I don't think Adell's ceiling is quite that high (still very high, though) and it's not like he's a sure thing either. Neither has played enough pro ball to seriously change an evaluation of people who have been watching these guys for years.

[Second Base]

25 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

Yeah I guess I didn't specify.  I've seen the MLB and now BR rankings of the Angels top 30 and Maitan is second behind Ohtani in both.  I agree with the AngelsWin rankings.  Thats kind of the point I'm making and is based off of something you said.  Maitan came from the Braves and despite all things pointing to him being ranked lower, "outsiders" view him as our top guy (excluding Ohtani) meaning they are automatically undervaluing our prospects.  Especially given what I have read from MLB.com and BR regarding both Maitan and Adell.  Based on their opinions of the two players you would think they favor Adell, but then they rank Maitan higher.

I get it though. If upside is all that matters,  Maitan will be the next Miguel Cabrera, whereas Adell would be the next Byron Buxton.

Maitan is a year younger, has greater pedigree and is at the same level as Adell.

I preferred Adell over Maitan simply because he's a more well rounded prospect, and performed very well in Rookie Ball.

That might change next year though. Maitan got on a nutrition and workout regimen, has slimmed back down to where he was before and could go bonkers at Orem and A Ball, Adell could struggle in A Ball. Jahmai Jones may take a giant leap forward in power and dominate in AA. Brandon Marsh may end up laying waste to both levels of A Ball. Griffin Canning might ace his way through the minors next year. Thaiss' power might develop the way we'd hoped and he becomes a legitimate all star caliber 1B.

These top prospect lists are really a snap shot in time. A lot can happen.

[Stradling]

38 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

No because Ohtani comes to the roster financially and control wise just as a graduating prospect.

Darvish wpuld come to the roster with amassive financial obligation.

Having Ohtani means you need fewer cheap prospects on the way.  Darvish means you need more.

I see them as exact opposites in those terms.

But neither has an impact on the farm, plain and simple.  That is my point.  If anything, like you suggested, Darvish means you need a better farm because of his impact to the payroll.  

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I get it though. If upside is all that matters,  Maitan will be the next Miguel Cabrera, whereas Adell would be the next Byron Buxton.

Maitan is a year younger, has greater pedigree and is at the same level as Adell.

I preferred Adell over Maitan simply because he's a more well rounded prospect, and performed very well in Rookie Ball.

That might change next year though. Maitan got on a nutrition and workout regimen, has slimmed back down to where he was before and could go bonkers at Orem and A Ball, Adell could struggle in A Ball. Jahmai Jones may take a giant leap forward in power and dominate in AA. Brandon Marsh may end up laying waste to both levels of A Ball. Griffin Canning might ace his way through the minors next year. Thaiss' power might develop the way we'd hoped and he becomes a legitimate all star caliber 1B.

These top prospect lists are really a snap shot in time. A lot can happen.

Are you the only person calling Adell the next Buxton?  If so I am going to start saying that Kole is the next Rusty Staub, and there for that is what he is.  

[Second Base]

23 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Are you the only person calling Adell the next Buxton?  If so I am going to start saying that Kole is the next Rusty Staub, and there for that is what he is.  

I didn't originate it, but it's strongly applicable.

[AngelsLakersFan]

56 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I get it though. If upside is all that matters,  Maitan will be the next Miguel Cabrera, whereas Adell would be the next Byron Buxton.

Maitan is a year younger, has greater pedigree and is at the same level as Adell.

I preferred Adell over Maitan simply because he's a more well rounded prospect, and performed very well in Rookie Ball.

That might change next year though. Maitan got on a nutrition and workout regimen, has slimmed back down to where he was before and could go bonkers at Orem and A Ball, Adell could struggle in A Ball. Jahmai Jones may take a giant leap forward in power and dominate in AA. Brandon Marsh may end up laying waste to both levels of A Ball. Griffin Canning might ace his way through the minors next year. Thaiss' power might develop the way we'd hoped and he becomes a legitimate all star caliber 1B.

These top prospect lists are really a snap shot in time. A lot can happen.

Hey Scotty, any chance the Angels consider moving Thaiss to third base? His bat is developing slower than hoped, so maybe they use the time to increase his potential defensive value.