Odds are we'll have a decent rotation pretty quickly

[UndertheHalo]

Skaggs and Richards are both pretty huge question marks, but I'm starting to be a believer in Meyers and maybe even Bridwell.  Still it seems to me that the gods can't f over the Angels forever with this many decent arms.  If they acquire a solid 1 or 2 type in the next 6-7 months.  I like the look of the rotation we should eventually be able to field out of all these guys.

Heaney, Tropeano, Shormaker, Ramirez, Skaggs, Richards, Smith even Canning probably can be considered in the not too distant future.  This is a pretty damn solid number of MLB capable starters.

The bullpen is also pretty decent from the looks of it.  Really, as far pitching goes we aren't in terrible shape.  Now if only we could figure out the 5 different holes we need in the field and line up.

We just need to not do something crazy to get a mediocre player like Dee Gordon.  A little bit of patience right now will pay off long term.  Here's to hoping Arte spends some money. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[JustATroutFan]

Not sold on Bridwell. His ERA is way lower than his FIP. Meyer could be legit because he has the stuff to be good but will need to see him put at least a few good seasons in order to believe in him, if I were an Angels fan.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Meyer could be legit because he has the stuff to be good but will need to see him put at least a few good seasons in order to believe in him

I'll be happy if he puts up one good season next year. If he pitches like I think he can 1 really good season is all I need to think him legit.

[UndertheHalo]

Yea I'm not sold on Bridwell either, but still I think he's got a shot to be a MLB contributor.  Overall tho, even if he fails with the number of guys we have one of the other ones should work out. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

12 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Skaggs and Richards are both pretty huge question marks, but I'm starting to be a believer in Meyers and maybe even Bridwell.

I wouldn't give up on Richards or Skaggs just yet, Skaggs has had 2 rehab starts with 1 more Thursday and could possibly be back soon after that.

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

I wouldn't give up on Richards or Skaggs just yet, Skaggs has had 2 rehab starts with 1 more Thursday and could possibly be back soon after that.

If Richards can get healthy it would be an incredible boost.  I have more optimism for him then Skaggs, but still he has to prove an ability to be healthy.  You can't blame me for the skepticism.  It's very much a fair question for him right now.  Skaggs I'd like to believe in but it's just a pipe dream to me right now.  The guy has shown zero ability to string together any amount of healthy time in his entire career. 

Anyway, my point still is, even with the question marks we should be able to get together a pretty darn good top to bottom staff with a good FA acquisition. 

[Chuck]

21 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Not sold on Bridwell. His ERA is way lower than his FIP. Meyer could be legit because he has the stuff to be good but will need to see him put at least a few good seasons in order to believe in him, if I were an Angels fan.

Bridwell has pretty good stuff.

Let's not talk about FIP again. It reminds me of the argument we had here on signing Joe Blanton. 

[JustATroutFan]

10 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Bridwell has pretty good stuff.

Let's not talk about FIP again. It reminds me of the argument we had here on signing Joe Blanton. 

Why? He is not going to keep on giving up like a shit load of bombs while maintaining an ERA that low.

[Second Base]

Having a great pitching staff in the majors is akin to having a great RB, WR or QB in the NFL.  It's largely dependent upon other factors.  Pitchers are great when they're given a comfortable lead and aren't afraid to make mistakes.  Pitchers are great when they have a great defense playing behind them.  Pitchers are great when catchers are great.  Pitchers are great when the pitch calling is spot on.  Pitchers are great when they're healthy, and finally, pitchers are great when they're given a long leash. 

[Angel Oracle]

How many HRs with men on base has Bridwell allowed?   If most are of the solo variety, is it a huge issue for a #4 or #5 starter to give up a lot of HRs?

Maybe he is just one of those guys who relishes/bears down pitching with men on base?  

[DMVol]

22 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

How many HRs with men on base has Bridwell allowed?   If most are of the solo variety, is it a huge issue for a #4 or #5 starter to give up a lot of HRs?

Maybe he is just one of those guys who relishes/bears down pitching with men on base?  

Fergie Jenkins....gave up a lot of homers but rarely gave one up with runners on or when it really mattered....

[totdprods]

I'm still too leery of our rotation health to make an assumption like that. 

Garrett Richards* has had no progress to make me feel any better, and he still could even wind up a non-tender casualty.
Matt Shoemaker* has an arm malady just as mysterious as Richards' has been. 
Tyler Skaggs has not been able to get healthy two seasons removed from Tommy John.
There's been nary a word on Nick Tropeano, whose ceiling is back-of-rotation at best.
Nate Smith* has thrown so few innings in the last calendar year he may as well have had Tommy John.
JC Ramirez* will throw twice as many innings this year as he has in any year since 2011.
Alex Meyer* has been made of glass his entire career.
Parker Bridwell* looks good. 
Andrew Heaney is on track. 
Grayson Long* is likely a mid-season 2018 call-up at best.
Same as Jaime Barria*, and that's optimistic.
Griffin Canning* fell to us because of medical issues.

And anyone with a star by their name hasn't had the dreaded TJ yet, which as we've seen tends to come at inopportune times. If I was Eppler, I'd run into '18 with the assumption at least one of the above will wind up falling to TJ, because assuming anything less is foolish. I think every team needs to plan for losing one or two arms a year to it, regardless.

As it stands right at this moment, our rotation's safest bet is:
Heaney, Skaggs, Ramirez, Meyer, Bridwell, with Tropeano and Long as depth, and that's still giving Skaggs and Tropeano some benefit of the doubt.

[UndertheHalo]

22 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'm still too leery of our rotation health to make an assumption like that. 

Garrett Richards* has had no progress to make me feel any better, and he still could even wind up a non-tender casualty.
Matt Shoemaker* has an arm malady just as mysterious as Richards' has been. 
Tyler Skaggs has not been able to get healthy two seasons removed from Tommy John.
There's been nary a word on Nick Tropeano, whose ceiling is back-of-rotation at best.
Nate Smith* has thrown so few innings in the last calendar year he may as well have had Tommy John.
JC Ramirez* will throw twice as many innings this year as he has in any year since 2011.
Alex Meyer* has been made of glass his entire career.
Parker Bridwell* looks good. 
Andrew Heaney is on track. 
Grayson Long* is likely a mid-season 2018 call-up at best.
Same as Jaime Barria*, and that's optimistic.
Griffin Canning* fell to us because of medical issues.

And anyone with a star by their name hasn't had the dreaded TJ yet, which as we've seen tends to come at inopportune times. If I was Eppler, I'd run into '18 with the assumption at least one of the above will wind up falling to TJ, because assuming anything less is foolish. I think every team needs to plan for losing one or two arms a year to it, regardless.

As it stands right at this moment, our rotation's safest bet is:
Heaney, Skaggs, Ramirez, Meyer, Bridwell, with Tropeano and Long as depth, and that's still giving Skaggs and Tropeano some benefit of the doubt.

this is all fair.  i'm just saying, it seems unlikely that some assortment of these guys doesn't come together and make for a decent pitching staff.

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

this is all fair.  i'm just saying, it seems unlikely that some assortment of these guys doesn't come together and make for a decent pitching staff.

I think many of us thought the same thing last year. 

Yeah, having this disaster three times in a row seems beyond the pale, but it'd be foolish to not proceed into our '18 rotation without some level of trepidation.

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, totdprods said:

I think many of us thought the same thing last year. 

Yeah, having this disaster three times in a row seems beyond the pale, but it'd be foolish to not proceed into our '18 rotation without some level of trepidation.

hey, I was one of them ! 

[totdprods]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

hey, I was one of them ! 

I was too! Haha. 
It'd be silly to assume this level of injury would happen again, but at this point, it'd be just as silly to assume this level of injury won't happen again.

I think Eppler has to approach it both ways. You can't just assume it'll all come together after all we've been through, especially when guys like Richards, Shoemaker, Smith, and Skaggs have all had such bizarre injury trends/tendencies over the last two years. In many ways, I'd maybe feel more comfortable had they all just wound up with another TJ, as at least it's something which has a more predictable success rate and healing history. There's just too many question marks still. 

If things all break right, yeah, we will have a hell of a rotation and pitching depth to spare. We'd be able to fill both the rotation and pen and have breathing room still, and a surplus of controllable pitching is a good thing on the trade market these days. 

[Second Base]

32 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'm still too leery of our rotation health to make an assumption like that. 

Garrett Richards* has had no progress to make me feel any better, and he still could even wind up a non-tender casualty.
Matt Shoemaker* has an arm malady just as mysterious as Richards' has been. 
Tyler Skaggs has not been able to get healthy two seasons removed from Tommy John.
There's been nary a word on Nick Tropeano, whose ceiling is back-of-rotation at best.
Nate Smith* has thrown so few innings in the last calendar year he may as well have had Tommy John.
JC Ramirez* will throw twice as many innings this year as he has in any year since 2011.
Alex Meyer* has been made of glass his entire career.
Parker Bridwell* looks good. 
Andrew Heaney is on track. 
Grayson Long* is likely a mid-season 2018 call-up at best.
Same as Jaime Barria*, and that's optimistic.
Griffin Canning* fell to us because of medical issues.

And anyone with a star by their name hasn't had the dreaded TJ yet, which as we've seen tends to come at inopportune times. If I was Eppler, I'd run into '18 with the assumption at least one of the above will wind up falling to TJ, because assuming anything less is foolish. I think every team needs to plan for losing one or two arms a year to it, regardless.

As it stands right at this moment, our rotation's safest bet is:
Heaney, Skaggs, Ramirez, Meyer, Bridwell, with Tropeano and Long as depth, and that's still giving Skaggs and Tropeano some benefit of the doubt.

1. You don't non-tender a pitcher of Richards caliber.  Regardless of health. 

2. Nick Tropeano's present ability is better than a back of the rotation starter, and his ceiling is quite more.

3. Meyer hasn't been made of glass his entire career, just the two previous years.  He's healthy and is throwing from a better arm slot now that will keep him ship-shape.  He's never once had elbow issues, just shoulder, which is both better and worse depending on the specifics.  In his case it means better as it was never anything more than soreness and fatigue  If it was a torn labrum like Kelvin Escobar had, that would mean worse. 

4. Canning did fall to us because of non-existent medical issues that could potentially come up in the future.  The fact that he fell to us doesn't change the fact that he could be a very good mid-rotation candidate.

I'm optimistic about this group for a couple reasons. 

a. They have more upside than any other rotation in the AL presently.

b. They're a solid 12 deep.  I fully anticipate needing to use all 12 next year because that's the way it's gone the last two years (though admittedly, both were just rotten luck).  But the good part is, all 12 are pretty darn good pitchers.  

c. So many of them are young and homegrown.  We may not need to acquire a starting pitcher on the free agent or trade market for another half decade, which keeps costs down, gives us a greater influx on prospect talent on a more continual basis and allows the team to focus on acquiring the necessary hitter to compete. 

The Angels probably aren't a playoff team in 2017.  They have a good shot in 2018, and they have a great shot in 2019 and beyond.  It's hard not to be optimistic at this point. 

[Angel Oracle]

Sort out the pitchers over the next 14 months, and focus on improving the offense. 

[totdprods]

I have no doubt those 12 will be huge for us in the long-term. I'm still talking more 2018 only. My lone concern is we're two months from end of season, and five months away at most from really the 'end' of the impact part of the offseason, and so many of those have such vague statuses and red flags still.

I will gladly whistle another tune if some of those guys are healthy and consistently throwing, even if only in rehab games, by end of the season.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

17 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

How many HRs with men on base has Bridwell allowed?   If most are of the solo variety, is it a huge issue for a #4 or #5 starter to give up a lot of HRs?

Maybe he is just one of those guys who relishes/bears down pitching with men on base?  

I've always found this argument confusing. It's like saying, "he's one of those parents who stop drinking and beating their kid when child services are around." 

[Dtwncbad]

18 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

this is all fair.  i'm just saying, it seems unlikely that some assortment of these guys doesn't come together and make for a decent pitching staff.

I don't want a decent pitching staff.  I want a good pitching staff.

The team needs a bona fide horse at the top.

[zenmaster]

8 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I don't want a decent pitching staff.  I want a good pitching staff.

The team needs a bona fide horse at the top.

Yu can have one for the right price

[IIIII]

Way too many assumptions that half of those players will remain healthy when history has shown the exact opposite will more than likely occur.

 

Title should be changed to  "Odds say we will continue to have an injured pitching staff."

[UndertheHalo]

Seems to me that the odds are diminished that all of them will be injured at the same time again.  

[totdprods]

Can't deny their upside and potential, but you can't ignore the durability issues at this point.