Vlad and the HOF- Angel or Expo?

[Richard]

Looks like we'll have to revisit this thread next year.

Next year should be Vlad's year.

 

[Biergott]

Fack

[Chuck]

Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines and Ivan Rodriguez were elected to the 2017 class of the Baseball Hall of Fame by the BBWAA.

 

Bagwell and Raines both just missed out on making the Hall of Fame last season. Better times in 2017, particularly for Raines (who would not have been eligible next year). He joins the hall having hit .294/.385/.425 with 170 homers, 980 RBI and 808 steals across 23 major league seasons. He amassed six seasons of at least 70 steals. For his part, Bagwell played his entire career with the Astros and slugged 449 home runs while driving in 1,529 runs across 15 campaigns in the bigs. He was a career .297/.408/.540 hitter. Pudge Rodriguez is something of a surprise entrant, here, joining Johnny Bench as the only catcher to be inducted on the first ballot. The longtime Rangers backstop finished out his time in the majors holding a career batting line of .296/.334/.464 to go along with 311 homers and 1,332 RBI. Just missing the cut was Trevor Hoffman, who received 74% of the vote, just one point off the necessary mark.

 

 

Source: John Shea on Twitter

[mulwin444]

Next year will be crowded as well....Jim Thome and Chipper Jones should both be 1st ballot.  

[Angelsfan1984]

How the hell does Tim Raines make it and not Vlad?

[Oz27]

1 minute ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

How the hell does Tim Raines make it and not Vlad?

Tim Raines has a much stronger case. Seriously, it's not close.

[totdprods]

Players usually see a little bump when they're on their last year of eligibility too, and first-timers usually the opposite. Vlad's in good shape.

[Biergott]

Vlad got 71.7%...15 votes shy.  Dammit

[Angel Oracle]

Raines was not a better player than Vlad.   He had good stats, but only the Runs Scored, SBs, and maybe triples truly stand out enough for the HOF for Raines.

Vlad was the better all around player.   

Vlad 2018, better be as a Halos player.   I've got the Vlad jersey ready to wear that day.

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

Tim Raines has a much stronger case. Seriously, it's not close.

disagree.  

[totdprods]

Billy Wagner deserves more, as does Lee Smith, if Hoffman can come in so high so quick. 

Hoff is obviously a class in his own, but Wagner was pretty close to elite for a very long time by closer standards, and Lee Smith at least deserves to come close.

[red321]

Surprised that Pudge was a first ballot guy...to me he was kind of fringe and you add in PED rumors didn't think he'd get there, at least not first ballot.

 

 

[Richard]

7 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Players usually see a little bump when they're on their last year of eligibility too, and first-timers usually the opposite. Vlad's in good shape.

Him and Hoffman should be up there again in 2018, which they'll probably get in. Definitely see Chipper and Thome in that group as well.

[red321]

Older article about Vlad...made me smile.

http://deadspin.com/vladimir-guerrero-had-hubris-and-he-had-balls-1689124654

I can remember watching him throw the ball over the right field wall while warming up. My uncle was in town for a game and we were in the stands...watch this I told him. Watch him warm up? yeah...Wh.........holy shit, did he just do that?

We were lucky we got to watch him play day in and day out.

 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I don't understand why there has to be any logo on the cap, especially since the advent of free agency, when players frequently move from one club to another. It made more sense prior to free agency, when a player might spend his entire career with one club.

[red321]

1 minute ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I don't understand why there has to be any logo on the cap, especially since the advent of free agency, when players frequently move from one club to another. It made more sense prior to free agency, when a player might spend his entire career with one club.

Because, then it would look like one of those silly commercials when they wouldn't fork over the cash for logo licensing rights

[Oz27]

12 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Raines was not a better player than Vlad.   He had good stats, but only the Runs Scored, SBs, and maybe triples truly stand out enough for the HOF for Raines.

Vlad was the better all around player.   

Vlad 2018, better be as a Halos player.   I've got the Vlad jersey ready to wear that day.

I don't agree with this at all. Vlad was a bit better at hitting than Raines (136 wRC+ to 125) but he wasn't better than him at anything else. Raines was worth 100 runs on the bases, Vlad was worth -50. Raines was a better fielder, although admittedly not by much. The average RF hall-of-famer was worth 73.2 wins and Vlad only got to 59.3. Using the JAWS metric, Vlad is below both the peak and the career marks required to make the HOF. Raines met all of his.

Vlad fell off at a very early age and it really hurts his case. His peak was good, but it's questionable whether it was good enough to make up for the fact he didn't come close to compiling the career numbers normally needed. Raines, on the other hand, is a slam dunk hall-of-famer as far as I am concerned.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

15 minutes ago, red321 said:

Because, then it would look like one of those silly commercials when they wouldn't fork over the cash for logo licensing rights

What about a guy like Gaylord Perry, who played for eight teams? The line has to be drawn somewhere. Or do the image without a cap.

[Angel Oracle]

Didn't Gaylord Perry go in with all of those logos on his cap?  

 

[Angels#1Fan]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Just right the wrong of Ryan going in as a Ranger.    

Total injustice and I think it's one of the reasons that MLB stopped letting players choose what team they go in as.

Nolan Ryan in the HOF as a Ranger is really a joke but Buzzie pissed him off good and Ryan apparently never forgave them. It's really a shame considering what he meant to the organization, I mean when Ryan didn't pitch there'd be maybe 8 or 10 thousand in the stands, when he did pitch it was a different story. Not to mention there would be the feeling that you might see something special..oh well.

[Ohtaniland]

If Vlad was inducted into the HOF in an Expos uniform today this thread would go into an entirely different direction. 

[Angelsfan1984]

15 hours ago, Oz27 said:

I don't agree with this at all. Vlad was a bit better at hitting than Raines (136 wRC+ to 125) but he wasn't better than him at anything else. Raines was worth 100 runs on the bases, Vlad was worth -50. Raines was a better fielder, although admittedly not by much. The average RF hall-of-famer was worth 73.2 wins and Vlad only got to 59.3. Using the JAWS metric, Vlad is below both the peak and the career marks required to make the HOF. Raines met all of his.

Vlad fell off at a very early age and it really hurts his case. His peak was good, but it's questionable whether it was good enough to make up for the fact he didn't come close to compiling the career numbers normally needed. Raines, on the other hand, is a slam dunk hall-of-famer as far as I am concerned.

Raines did not dominate anything during his career. He was not a feared player. He just happened to play for 23 seasons. He had longevity on his side and that doesn't constitute hall of fame. Looking back on that era you don't think about Tim Raines.

[red321]

15 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

What about a guy like Gaylord Perry, who played for eight teams? The line has to be drawn somewhere. Or do the image without a cap.

Vaseline logo

[Troll Daddy]

[DMVol]

17 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Didn't Gaylord Perry go in with all of those logos on his cap?  

He has a SF Giants cap according to this.....

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmemu.shtml