Clark calls out Arte

[Stradling]

These contracts became artificialy inflated during the PED years. Now every .220 hitter thinks that they should be making $MILLION$.

This isn't accurate. TV contracts which have exploded not because of PEDs but because live sports are the one thing people watch live, is the reason owners offer huge contracts and big contracts to average players.

[AngelsLakersFan]

This isn't accurate. TV contracts which have exploded not because of PEDs but because live sports are the one thing people watch live, is the reason owners offer huge contracts and big contracts to average players.

 

I think we are seeing a combination of factors actually. Contracts have gone up for all the reasons you mentioned. Essentially owners are making more money and have more money to spend, so salaries go up. Calzone is correct in one way though, as PED's allowed players to be more productive into their 30's. Owners had the ability to pay for production on the FA market due to a larger than normal supply of productive players in FA. Today owners are putting all that cash into the highest tier talent because that middle tier is bottoming out and rapidly declining. Owners would spend money if they had a greater supply of talent to spend on. This will be a focuses for the players union this coming off season.

[ScottT]

Contracts keep increasing because of  ungrateful fans.  

[Ohtaniland]

This isn't accurate. TV contracts which have exploded not because of PEDs but because live sports are the one thing people watch live, is the reason owners offer huge contracts and big contracts to average players.

The PED era was very instrumental in bringing back the popularity of baseball after the strike. Major League Baseball and television worked hand in hand when Bonds, Sosa and Big Mac were hammering home runs. PED's made baseball popular again. The TV contracts came along for the ride.

[Stradling]

Look at when most of the billion dollar tv contracts were signed. Most in the last five years, well after the PED scandal.

[Stradling]

But yes, home runs is what helped baseball after '94.

[Docwaukee]

I've always found the dichotomy between the transparency of player contracts and the lack of transparency of owner/franchise finances beyond player payroll.   Can you imagine how the game would change if everyone knew how much the owners were pocketing?  If they aren't taking 20-30mil home per year, I would be very surprised.  Either that or they are just banking on the equity.  Granted, I think they have every right to try and make as much money as they can, but It would be very interesting if they were put under as much of a microscope.  

 

The mention of the replacement player not having any value is another interesting concept.  Everyone is looking for the next undervalued commodity.  Finding a way to pluck the next 26 or 27 yo AAA guy that can suddenly become an everyday player would be huge.  It seems that Eppler fancies himself as having that skill.  We'll see.  

[Blarg]

The PED era was very instrumental in bringing back the popularity of baseball after the strike. Major League Baseball and television worked hand in hand when Bonds, Sosa and Big Mac were hammering home runs. PED's made baseball popular again. The TV contracts came along for the ride.

That was 15 years ago.

[Stradling]

I've always found the dichotomy between the transparency of player contracts and the lack of transparency of owner/franchise finances beyond player payroll. Can you imagine how the game would change if everyone knew how much the owners were pocketing? If they aren't taking 20-30mil home per year, I would be very surprised. Either that or they are just banking on the equity. Granted, I think they have every right to try and make as much money as they can, but It would be very interesting if they were put under as much of a microscope.

The mention of the replacement player not having any value is another interesting concept. Everyone is looking for the next undervalued commodity. Finding a way to pluck the next 26 or 27 yo AAA guy that can suddenly become an everyday player would be huge. It seems that Eppler fancies himself as having that skill. We'll see.

I actually would prefer the exact opposite of what we have now. I think the game would be better appreciated if none of us knew what any of the players or coaches made and if we didn't know the teams payroll.

[Ohtaniland]

That was 15 years ago.

I believe that PED's were still being used through 2009. Just check the players stats that season vs last season. Either the roids are now gone or the league talent pool has diminished.

[Quinlanforthewin]

Plain and simple, Arte was not in a buying mood after getting continually burned by players that netted him zero playoff wins for his efforts. Arte finally figured out that paying players enormous amounts of money doesn't make them play like champions. When financially conservative teams like the Royals and Astros are making the playoffs it has to have Arte rethinking his approach. I think Arte will actually cut the budget moving forward. He has Mike Trout to fill the seats.

 

And he continued to gut the farm system in the offseason, nothing like the Royals or Astros.  Trout is not going to fill the seats alone; this team is just wasting his prime. 

[Docwaukee]

I believe that PED's were still being used through 2009. Just check the players stats that season vs last season. Either the roids are now gone or the league talent pool has diminished.

From what I could tell from the stats I am looking at I feel like it was through 2006.  That's when ISO started to drop again.  

[Ohtaniland]

And he continued to gut the farm system in the offseason, nothing like the Royals or Astros. Trout is not going to fill the seats alone; this team is just wasting his prime.

The farm was never the priority. It was always "win now" ..........remember our arrogant stance on things, "we don't rebuild, we reload"

That plan finally caught up to us. There's no more money to reload and the farm is looking like Green Acres.

[Mark68]

But the fans wanted Pujols, Hamilton, Greinke, Wilson, Tanaka, Heyward, Upton and many more. You can't have it both ways. Arte went "all in" with Pujols, Wilson and Hamilton and got screwed. Not even one playoff win was enough for Arte to figure it out. Some fans here were asking Arte to give Trout a 10 year $400m deal....laughable.

Who says you can't? The costs of player development are small compared to free agency. Other teams have been able to do both: Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox. In fact, the Red Sox took on some very very bad contracts last year, yet the core of their team consists of a few young players such as Betts & Bogaerts that were developed thru their farm system.

[Stradling]

Exactly Mark. But Claude thinks it's partly our expectations that has caused this, when it's totally unrelated. You can have both.

[Ohtaniland]

Exactly Mark. But Claude thinks it's partly our expectations that has caused this, when it's totally unrelated. You can have both.

It's tough to get quality picks when you're constantly giving away draft picks and when the high dollar free agents fail to do their jobs you gut the farm to save face at the major league level.

[tdawg87]

Not for New York, Boston, LA, etc. They have just as many crap contracts and lost picks as the Angels.

[bloodbrother]

Who says you can't? The costs of player development are small compared to free agency. Other teams have been able to do both: Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox. In fact, the Red Sox took on some very very bad contracts last year, yet the core of their team consists of a few young players such as Betts & Bogaerts that were developed thru their farm system.

 

And they still have a ton of others on the way. Benintendi, Espinoza, Henry Owens, Devers, and Moncada(glad the Angels didn't bother trying to sign him). Must be nice to actually invest in your minor league development/international market

[California Cajun]

I would say Vladimir Guerrero, Torii Hunter, and Albert Pujols are acquisitions Arte doesn't regret.

Bartolo had one Cy Young season, one good season, and two lost to injury. CJ Wilson had bad years every other season with an elbow injury.

Gary Matthews Jr., Vernon Wells, and Josh Hamilton were catastrophic bad.

I think this is pretty similar to the luck the Yankees and Red Sox have with big salaries.

[Stradling]

It's tough to get quality picks when you're constantly giving away draft picks and when the high dollar free agents fail to do their jobs you gut the farm to save face at the major league level.

Its even harder to do when you don't invest in minor league development and scouting and you don't invest in international talent or international scouting. Claude, you can keep blaming expectations of fans, but all fans want their teams to win and all fans love home grown players. So when your team ignores development of their own minor leagues, then that has nothing to do with the fans and their wishes. It's called balance and Arte has never had that, the closest is when Stoneman wouldn't trade minor league talent, drafted well, developed well, and signed the big four in 2004. If you ignore one facet, you better do the other facets well. When you ignore two facets, you are basically screwed.

[Ohtaniland]

Its even harder to do when you don't invest in minor league development and scouting and you don't invest in international talent or international scouting. Claude, you can keep blaming expectations of fans, but all fans want their teams to win and all fans love home grown players. So when your team ignores development of their own minor leagues, then that has nothing to do with the fans and their wishes. It's called balance and Arte has never had that, the closest is when Stoneman wouldn't trade minor league talent, drafted well, developed well, and signed the big four in 2004. If you ignore one facet, you better do the other facets well. When you ignore two facets, you are basically screwed.

You ignore development when the fans demand high dollar free agent talent. Then when that high dollar free agent talent fails to produce we bitch because the farm is depleted. Look we had Reagins and Dipoto for 8 seasons. They both failed the farm system. The damage is done and now Eppler will have to try to balance the major league level and the farm. That will take five years in my opinion. Stay thirsty my friend.

[tdawg87]

You ignore development when the fans demand high dollar free agent talent.

 

Did you choose to ignore that the other big market teams have done both just fine? It's been mentioned by at least 3 different people on this page alone.

[Stradling]

You ignore development when the fans demand high dollar free agent talent. Then when that high dollar free agent talent fails to produce we bitch because the farm is depleted. Look we had Reagins and Dipoto for 8 seasons. They both failed the farm system. The damage is done and now Eppler will have to try to balance the major league level and the farm. That will take five years in my opinion. Stay thirsty my friend.

Then the ownership is horrible. If you ignore part of your business because of your customer then you don't understand how to run a long term succesful business. Go ahead and try to place blame where it doesn't belong. We totally get it, you don't like high dollar players.

[Stradling]

Did you choose to ignore that the other big market teams have done both just fine? It's been mentioned by at least 3 different people on this page alone.

You have your answer.

[Mark68]

You ignore development when the fans demand high dollar free agent talent. Then when that high dollar free agent talent fails to produce we bitch because the farm is depleted. Look we had Reagins and Dipoto for 8 seasons. They both failed the farm system. The damage is done and now Eppler will have to try to balance the major league level and the farm. That will take five years in my opinion. Stay thirsty my friend.

This is a false premise. The Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers have all spent like drunken sailors on shore leave. But they have also developed strong minor league systems that are paying off for all of their teams.

 

Honestly, Arte said he wanted to play with the big boys, and to do so, you have to take an "all of the above" strategy, which he has neglected to do.