Orange County Register: Angels Q&A: Any hope for Yoenis Cespedes, Justin Upton?

[AngelsWin.com]

On Thursday morning on the Register's Angels Facebook page, you asked and we answered. Here's a selection of the questions and answers. Click here to see the entire Q&A. Arte Moreno said for the right person he'd go over the luxury tax. If a 28 year...

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[Angel Oracle]

So the question is, if the contract for either Cespedes or Upton came down to 5 years/$100 million, would Arte Moreno still find that to be too long of duration?    Keep in mind that all sorts of warnings existed before signing Hamilton (bad middle of 2012, seemingly stopped caring at the close of 2012, past drug/alcohol abuse, etc.).    Those same warnings aren't in place for either Cespedes or Upton.

 

Again, I applaude the stopping of really long term deals for aging superstars.

Cespedes and Upton do not fit that statement.    Be careful to not overcompensate for past bad signings.  

Edited January 14, 2016 by Angel Oracle

[tdawg87]

I'm concerned with lack of creativity. We need to consider moving both Garrett Richards and C.J. Cron. We must fix our depth. Thoughts? - Jeff Somerville

 

[Docwaukee]

Maybe I am thinking about this wrong, but I am not sure Fletcher's math is correct on the cap hit for CJ.

 

We owe him 20 mil and have paid 55 mil of a 5/75 deal.  But we have paid the cap 60 mil (so to speak).   If we trade him and eat 10 mil, then the contract is essentially a 5/65 mil deal.  and we have accounted for 60 mil of that relative to the cap already so his cap hit would only be another 5 mil.  

 

Meaning we would truly save dollar for dollar on the cap relative to how much another team takes on.  In fact, if we got a team to eat the entire 20mil, we would actually get a cap credit (if that exists). 

[seenoevil]

enough bullshit and sign one of them

[VariousCrap]

That was me for the Weaver question!

[VariousCrap]

Again, I applaude the stopping of really long term deals for aging superstars.

Cespedes and Upton do not fit that statement.    Be careful to not overcompensate for past bad signings.  

 

 

 

Upton is 28 years old. 

[AngelStew43]

So, if we move Richards, who pitches?  Please keep in mind that Richards is the closest thing we have to an ace, and he didn't pitch last season at 100 percent.

[Halos of Anaheim]

 

I asked that question 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not srs.

[Angel Oracle]

Upton is 28 years old.

That's exactly why I said Upton does not fit the declining/aging profile of players this org used to take on.

Arte needs to get back on that horse he fell off of after signing Pujols and Hamilton, but only for age 30 and under FA players not declining. Just as long as he didn't pay Upton 6-7 years for $25 million per.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Angel Oracle

[Ohtaniland]

Arte said he would go over the luxury tax for the right player. Would Upton or Cespedes be willing to ink a big $$$ deal with no incentives for the right team?

It seems like every player who wants a mega deal also wants a no trade clause, more money for x amount of at bats, All Star appearance bonus, MVP bonus, GG bonus, Silver Slugger bonus and a luxury box.

Arte finally understands that the right player is always some greedy guy who underperforms for most of his contract but still wants to squeeze every dime out of the team when they perform well for only about 1 or 2 seasons out of a long term deal.

Edited January 15, 2016 by CALZONE

[Stradling]

Arte said he would go over the luxury tax for the right player. Would Upton or Cespedes be willing to ink a big $$$ deal with no incentives for the right team?

It seems like every player who wants a mega deal also wants a no trade clause, more money for x amount of at bats, All Star appearance bonus, MVP bonus, GG bonus, Silver Slugger bonus and a luxury box.

Arte finally understands that the right player is always some greedy guy who underperforms for most of his contract but still wants to squeeze every dime out of the team when they perform well for only about 1 or 2 seasons out of a long term deal.

You mistake greed for aging superstar, which neither of these guys are. Those players aren't the ones asking for all star bonuses or mvp bonuses, those are little perks that agents put into contracts. Was Hunter greedy when he wasn't interested in staying here for $5 million? I totally understand your aversion to signing free agents, but you can't have it both ways, which is what Arte is at least publicly trying to do. If you aren't going to go the free agent route then you have to invest in your minor leagues, and your international signings. If not then you have one superstar and the rest of the team of average players. Once again, I like the trade for Escobar, I like the acquisition of Simmons (not the price but love the player), but neither of those moves make any sense if we aren't going to sign free agents, not with this minor league system.

[Ohtaniland]

You mistake greed for aging superstar, which neither of these guys are. Those players aren't the ones asking for all star bonuses or mvp bonuses, those are little perks that agents put into contracts. Was Hunter greedy when he wasn't interested in staying here for $5 million? I totally understand your aversion to signing free agents, but you can't have it both ways, which is what Arte is at least publicly trying to do. If you aren't going to go the free agent route then you have to invest in your minor leagues, and your international signings. If not then you have one superstar and the rest of the team of average players. Once again, I like the trade for Escobar, I like the acquisition of Simmons (not the price but love the player), but neither of those moves make any sense if we aren't going to sign free agents, not with this minor league system.

I actually like the direction that the club is headed. It's not "win now" but it will be a better team long term.

[Stradling]

How can you like the direction when none of us know what that direction is? The direction as of now is trade your only two valuable minor leaguers and your short stop for a GREAT defensive short stop that will improve your team for at least the next two years. Don't sign any international free agents. Stay as close to the luxury tax without going over, despite going over for one year, greatly increases your chances of making the playoffs. Acquire a perfect bench for a playoff team a bench where their will be specified roles, but won't matter since this team is going to have to catch all the breaks to make it into the playoffs. Acquire a defensively average, however very solid leadoff hitter which just added money to the salary, when we had a GREAT defensive third baseman that could have provided nearly the same overall value for $6 million less. Your idea of direction the club is headed is "don't sign high dollar free agents despite the three years now need for an everyday left fielder". It's cool, next year we can pay an outfielder a ton of money to be not as good as the guys that are available this year.

[Junkballer]

"I'm willing to go over the cap for the right player" = "Watts is the perfect location for your hedge fund brokerage's billboard.  Trust me, it'll be fine"

[Chuck]

MLB.com's Jesse Sanchez reports that Yoenis Cespedes is "believed to be weighing" a five-year $90 million offer from the Orioles versus a one-year deal from the Mets.

[VariousCrap]

That's exactly why I said Upton does not fit the declining/aging profile of players this org used to take on.

Arte needs to get back on that horse he fell off of after signing Pujols and Hamilton, but only for age 30 and under FA players not declining. Just as long as he didn't pay Upton 6-7 years for $25 million per.

 

 

I misunderstood what you meant.  I agree with you completely.  Players 30 and under are worth giving longer contracts to if that is what it takes to sign them.  I'd have no issue with the Angels signing Upton for 5 or 6 years at 18 million a year.

[tdawg87]

And no offer was made by Arte because reasons.

[HaloNArizona]

So, if we move Richards, who pitches?  Please keep in mind that Richards is the closest thing we have to an ace, and he didn't pitch last season at 100 percent.

The Angels have to think beyond 2016...Right now, we have Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Trop, Santiago, Shoe, Weaver and Wilson

 

Weaver is a huge question mark and done after 2016

Wilson is done after 2016 and probably the best candidate to be moved by at least the ASB

Shoe is, in my mind, a question mark.  His 2015 was up and down....I'm not sure if I feel comfortable with him going forward

Skaggs, I think will be impressive, but is coming off an injury

Santiago is a tale of two halfs

 

Don't get me wrong, I like our rotation moving forward, I think Richards, Heaney, Skaggs will make a very solid top three in a rotation.  If Trop is a #4 type of guy, than we are looking good for the next several years.  I think Santiago and Wilson will be moved, one before the start of the season, one by the ASB.  Weaver will be demoted to mop role/released and by the ASB our rotation will be:

 

Heaney, Richards, Santiago, Trop and Skaggs.

 

 

 

[Angelfaninidaho]

  I think Santiago and Wilson will be moved, one before the start of the season, one by the ASB.  Weaver will be demoted to mop role/released and by the ASB our rotation will be:

 

Heaney, Richards, Santiago, Trop and Skaggs.

 

 

 

 

 That can't be the rotation if Santiago is moved.  Who do you think the 5th starter will be after the ASB?