The spawn of Bundy continues the legacy...

[mtangelsfan]

Hebrew*

 

Yeah, I thought about that after I posted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was just too lazy to fix it.

[Kevin]

I stand corrected

It's a very popular LDS name is what I should have said.

[Mark68]

Nice Constitution Crocodile tears.  So to my wife and daughters, why daddy wasn't home for Christmas, when this standoff started after Christmas, means daddy maxed out all credit cards at a Nevada brothel and found a good out for why he has been missing. 

Nevada brothels...now that's a libertarian ideal I can get behind...or under...or over...or next to...

[Crampknees]

My idea came from a true story in Reno.  The paper kept getting letters from a guy calling himself "amnesia man" and didn't know where he was at if my family was looking for me.  My thought was if you have amnesia how do you send letters to the news.  So since he used the mail the FBI became involved and they tracked amnesia man straight to the brothels.  Forget what they charged him with, making false claims through the mail or something.  Coincidentally he was one of the pastors at the church I met my wife.  I doomed another church. 

[arch stanton]

The land up there was never owned by the ranchers. It's long been leased by them to graze the cattle because in these drier areas it takes about 10 acres per head to raise them. It's been customary to give the ranchers the option to renew but it seems that BLM is now getting pressure from hunters and environmentalists to expand the preserve. At some point everyone has to decide whether they like steak or bird watching and deer hunting. The ones occupying the building prefer steak.

Edited January 7, 2016 by arch stanton

[Vegas Halo Fan]

[Crampknees]

The land up there was never owned by the ranchers. It's long been leased by them to graze the cattle because in these drier areas it takes about 10 acres per head to raise them. It's been customary to give the ranchers the option to renew but it seems that BLM is now getting pressure from hunters and environmentalists to expand the preserve. At some point everyone has to decide whether they like steak or bird watching and deer hunting. The ones occupying the building prefer steak.

I have no problem eating Grouse, Pheasant or Quail. 

[Crampknees]

Went Chukar hunting a few times and totaled about 30 hours combined (not including driving time) and got 2.  They were good, especially wrapped in bacon.  Probably easier to just walk up to a cow and shoot it in the head.  

[mtangelsfan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/01/08/im-an-oregon-rancher-heres-what-you-dont-understand-about-the-bundy-standoff/

 

a good article from an Oregon rancher not involved in this dispute.

[red321]

A good article discussing the history of BLM (and it's predecessors and ranchers)

 

This was a government, I wanted to remind him, that had set the federal grazing fee at $1.35 a month per cow-calf pair when the market rate on private land averaged $11.90, and it was spending at least $500 million annually in direct and indirect subsidies for public-lands ranchers. (In an essay for this magazine that was published in 1986, Edward Abbey called Western cattlemen “welfare parasites.”)....

 

....Bernard DeVoto observed in the 1940s that no rancher in his right mind wanted to own the public lands himself. That would entail responsibility and stewardship. Worse, it would mean paying property taxes. What ranchers have always wanted, and what extractive industries in general want, is private exploitation with costs paid by the public…

 

 

http://harpers.org/archive/2015/02/the-great-republican-land-heist/?single=1

[mtangelsfan]

yeah, those are comparable.

 

funny how the government is the bad guy until it is folks that libs consider to be "rednecks"

[red321]

I agree, that building a business from their bootstraps crap when they've been relying on government assistance, gamed the system for decades, and would be out of business in a manner of months without government support is pretty laughable

 

funny how those heroic ranchers who survive on government subsidies and treat public land as their tax free playground are heroic figures while inner city folks on food stamps are just moochers

 

 

I don't begrudge ranchers the ability to make a living...I just think they should stop being hypocrites and acknowledge that with government support, comes government oversight. They have no special right to public land...it's not their land, it's our land, and protecting that land for future generations is important, valuable...and in some cases more valuable than their ability to have subsided grazing to and mineral extraction.

 

We pitched our tents at a BLM campsite, and the next day drove on a dirt road into the Jarbidge district to look at an allotment that had once been predominantly sagebrush. I was unprepared for the devastation we saw. When I had lived in Utah, where two thirds of the state’s acreage is managed by the federal government, I had spent a lot of time backpacking and camping on public land, where I found the usual overgrazed valleys and meadows and canyons, the fields without flowers, the meadows without grass, the springs where the cattle had congregated, stomping and trampling, churning the water to shit-filled muck. But higher in the mountains and deeper in the canyons, I had always found crags the cows couldn’t reach where the streams ran clear and the banks were green.

On the Jarbidge, a cattle-blasted moonscape reached for miles. The grass had been grazed to dirt, the dirt formed dust devils when the wind kicked up, and the land looked hopeless. The sagebrush, which cattle will eat when there is nothing else, was gnawed and withered and bent. We crossed hundreds of acres where the sage had disappeared entirely, replaced by invasive species such as crested wheatgrass, which ranchers prefer as forage. “An industrialized landscape, a monoculture,” Ertz said.

[mtangelsfan]

Sorry red but I can't really work up too much respect for your opinion.  You compare ranchers/farmers to welfare recipients and badmouth their lifestyle.  They work harder in one ****ing week than you or I will work in our entire lives.

 

You have no idea what having a legacy or working the land means.  You have no idea what it is like to have land that your family has been on for a century only to be squeezed by a government that is supposed to work for you.  If you asked them if they would  rather be free of all of their perceived perks if they were allowed to do whatever they wanted to on their land, and to be able to sell to any entity they wanted they would say yes to a person.

Edited January 8, 2016 by mtangelsfan

[red321]

I never once badmouthed their lifestyle...pointing out that their lifestyle can't survive without subsidies and opportunities not available to others is not bad mouthing their lifestyle...it's pointing out they are hypocrites if they don't realize they can't exist without handouts from the federal government. If they had to pay fair prices for grazing rights...or taxes on land they get to use at a subsidized price...they wouldn't exist. This myth about the heroic cowyboy/rancher wouldn't exist without the government support they rail against.

 

You don't want to call them welfare recipients...fine...what word would you choose for someone who can't afford their lifestyle without government handouts and subsidies?

 

They don't get a medal because they've chosen a lifestyle that involves hard work. Lots of people work really hard and don't like paying taxes...doesn't mean they get to grab a rifle, put a snake on a flag, drop a pocket constitution in their shirt pocket, and pretend they know what the hell they are talking about.

 

You are right...I have no idea what it's like to have land that has been in my family for a century because the federal government went and ran others off of it for me. I wasn't lucky enough to be born under that star I guess. But I do like the idea of living on a nice large plot of land out in the mountains...that's one of the retirement ideas we've been talking about...unlike these guys I actually have to wait until I'm older and make enough money working to buy it for myself.

[Crampknees]

red, I spent all those years in Bishop and have your pics from there on my wall.  Have you looked at property up there because I can see you ending up there when you are ready to retire. 

[Crampknees]

Then again it is still California

[red321]

red, I spent all those years in Bishop and have your pics from there on my wall.  Have you looked at property up there because I can see you ending up there when you are ready to retire. 

 

That's one of the areas we've discussed Kurt...though I think the wife would prefer something closer to Mammoth, so maybe somewhere north of the Shermans Grade.

[mtangelsfan]

I never once badmouthed their lifestyle...pointing out that their lifestyle can't survive without subsidies and opportunities not available to others is not bad mouthing their lifestyle...it's pointing out they are hypocrites if they don't realize they can't exist without handouts from the federal government. If they had to pay fair prices for grazing rights...or taxes on land they get to use at a subsidized price...they wouldn't exist. This myth about the heroic cowyboy/rancher wouldn't exist without the government support they rail against.

 

You don't want to call them welfare recipients...fine...what word would you choose for someone who can't afford their lifestyle without government handouts and subsidies?

 

They don't get a medal because they've chosen a lifestyle that involves hard work. Lots of people work really hard and don't like paying taxes...doesn't mean they get to grab a rifle, put a snake on a flag, drop a pocket constitution in their shirt pocket, and pretend they know what the hell they are talking about.

 

You are right...I have no idea what it's like to have land that has been in my family for a century because the federal government went and ran others off of it for me. I wasn't lucky enough to be born under that star I guess. But I do like the idea of living on a nice large plot of land out in the mountains...that's one of the retirement ideas we've been talking about...unlike these guys I actually have to wait until I'm older and make enough money working to buy it for myself.

Your disdain shows. Come on out here sometime and we can put your ass to some real work

[red321]

too bad all that hard work doesn't help toughen up that thin skin

[arch stanton]

Plenty of agricultural industries in the US are subsidized. Isn't anyone curious about why BLM wants to change things after generations of allowing the ranchers to graze your future meals on that land?

[Spirit]

Sure!  Why does Black Lives Matter want to change things?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

From Twitter:

 

[Spirit]

I wonder how this whole scenario would play out if the ranchers were black…. or muslim…. not white?

 

 

 

 

... or hanging out in front of an unoccupied building out in the middle of nowhere?

[mtangelsfan]

I wonder how this whole scenario would play out if the ranchers were black…. or muslim…. not white?

 

I'd guess death by firing squad but that would require a trial.

that's easy, you would be supporting them.

Hypocrite

[mtangelsfan]

too bad all that hard work doesn't help toughen up that thin skin

ass