Good Young Talent

[HBAngel13]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I still think they need to try and cash in on the value of someone like Sandoval (Ward or Rengifo are kind of here too) in a trade that nets a couple MLB-ready guys. 

I’m not totally sold on Perry, but I will give him credit that he seems to have a real good eye at identifying young players who can step right into MLB playing time and produce sooner than anticipated. 

I know this has Bavasi-esque connotations, but it is wild to me that Sandoval has a .327 WP% across almost 90 MLB games - only 16 wins to 33 losses. There’s talent there but I either think he’s scraping his ceiling already, or the Angels cannot unlock it. If Perry could turn him into another equivalent of the O’Hoppe/Moniak deals this winter, it should be pursued IMO. Cincinnati? Baltimore? Arizona?

I wouldn’t mind moving Sandy to Baltimore. They have a bevy of position player prospects that would slot well with our current group. 

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, HBAngel13 said:

I wouldn’t mind moving Sandy to Baltimore. They have a bevy of position player prospects that would slot well with our current group. 

I don’t want the Angels to operate like a small/mid/Dipoto market team, but one thing they’ve failed to do in the last decade is sell high-value guys when opportunity arose - and I understand the thinking (“they’ll need guys like that next year to compete”) but I really think abandoning the “win every year” mindset for 2024-2025 could do them wonders. If Ohtani stays it’s a less feasible, but, especially given the state of the farm, the age of the youngsters contributing on the MLB club, the stacked division….they should explore using these next two years to move guys like Sandoval, Ward, Rengifo, maybe even one of the young gun relievers if a couple emerge as bigtime elite bullpen arms, and trust Perry to keep finding quick-to-majors guys who were somewhat unheralded (Neto, O’Hoppe, Moniak, maybe Schanuel). Once those guys lock in, start going the Braves route and sign them to 5-8 year deals. 

But they can’t round out the MLB team in 1-2 years by drafting to the need and speeding them to the bigs. It won’t work every time and it will neglect building a sustainable farm. They need to move a guy or two these next twelve months at peak value and try to return 2-5 contributing youngsters to the new core. 

[HBAngel13]

43 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don’t want the Angels to operate like a small/mid/Dipoto market team, but one thing they’ve failed to do in the last decade is sell high-value guys when opportunity arose - and I understand the thinking (“they’ll need guys like that next year to compete”) but I really think abandoning the “win every year” mindset for 2024-2025 could do them wonders. If Ohtani stays it’s a less feasible, but, especially given the state of the farm, the age of the youngsters contributing on the MLB club, the stacked division….they should explore using these next two years to move guys like Sandoval, Ward, Rengifo, maybe even one of the young gun relievers if a couple emerge as bigtime elite bullpen arms, and trust Perry to keep finding quick-to-majors guys who were somewhat unheralded (Neto, O’Hoppe, Moniak, maybe Schanuel). Once those guys lock in, start going the Braves route and sign them to 5-8 year deals. 

But they can’t round out the MLB team in 1-2 years by drafting to the need and speeding them to the bigs. It won’t work every time and it will neglect building a sustainable farm. They need to move a guy or two these next twelve months at peak value and try to return 2-5 contributing youngsters to the new core. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Perry does just that - at least on a limited basis. Could see him clearing the decks of the Eppler/Dipoto holdovers and reconstituting the team with guys that fit his vision.  Ward is a guy that seems to lack the killer instinct but still has value from his control and production (at least pre injury).  Sandoval fits that bill as well. 

[happybat4]

6 hours ago, Stradling said:

Except the actual talent wasn’t there from 2014-2021. So no, not really. Show me the 2014 version of Neto or O’Hoppe or Schanuel. Fletcher or Walsh weren’t close to Neto or Schanuel. Who were the back end relief arms in those years that looked like Bachman, Soriano or Joyce?  Morin? Bedrosian?  If you want to compare Sandoval Detmers to Skaggs or Heaney I think that’s fair. But then who is Silseth or Canning?  Tropeano?

Fletcher had a 3.8 BWAR, that would be the 2nd best player this year. Jared Walsh was an all star. The talent has been there, it just disappeared. 

[ScottT]

I agree.

[greginpsca]

Will be interesting to see who will be on the roster next season. Guys that i expect will be gone are, Renfroe, Escobar, Cron, Grichuk,Lopez,Giolito, Leone, Suarez, Barria,Ohtani. Maybe more. I think a few more might be traded.

[ScottT]

It's wild that they may have filled three long term holes in a little over a year.  Probably won't all work out how we want, but with Neto, O'hoppe, and maybe Schanuel.... makes Ohtani more affordable.  I'm confident those three will provide good value short term.  The problem with the Angels lately is they've had black holes.... not that they paid Rendon too much.

[full circle]

Interesting.  I like how posts disappear when certain posters look absolutely stupid, but when that same poster can make others look stupid, the posts remain.  Not surprising, but incredibly douchey all the same. 

[mmc]

4 hours ago, happybat4 said:

Fletcher had a 3.8 BWAR, that would be the 2nd best player this year. Jared Walsh was an all star. The talent has been there, it just disappeared. 

Can’t compare those two to guys like Neto and Schanuel, Fletcher and Walsh were latter round picks that never ranked particularly high in our prospect lists before being called up and having success that is much more akin to a flash in the pan.  Neto and Schanuel were each one of the best prospects in their respective draft classes and top prospects for us from day 1

[TheLordofOuts]

Pretty soon, the media will be saying that Neto and O'hoppe's talent is being wasted.  Halos aren't going to contend until Arte sells the team.  

[Angels 1961]

17 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

Bingo

I 24 things change

[BTH]

15 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Will be interesting to see who will be on the roster next season. Guys that i expect will be gone are, Renfroe, Escobar, Cron, Grichuk,Lopez,Giolito, Leone, Suarez, Barria,Ohtani. Maybe more. I think a few more might be traded.

IMO, these are the only players under control that should 100%, no doubt be kept (or traded for a fair return):

O’Hoppe, Thaiss, Schanuel, Drury, Neto, Ward, Trout, Moniak, Soriano, Silseth, Sandoval, Joyce, Estévez, Detmers, Canning, and Bachman.

Everyone else is expendable or a bad contract.

[Revad]

On 8/19/2023 at 3:03 PM, UndertheHalo said:

Also, I’m sorry about this.  
 

 

Just what I needed with an upset stomach.

[Angels 1961]

16 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Will be interesting to see who will be on the roster next season. Guys that i expect will be gone are, Renfroe, Escobar, Cron, Grichuk,Lopez,Giolito, Leone, Suarez, Barria,Ohtani. Maybe more. I think a few more might be traded.

Do not forget about me fan favorite Loup.

[tomsred]

On 8/19/2023 at 1:12 PM, Angels 1961 said:

I agree halos have some building blocks. I would add Adell, Moniak and Thaiss to this group. The future is not all cloudy and gray. 

But are we going to get a tropical storm if Ohtani leaves?

[Docwaukee]

I like the young core of this team a lot.  

There's a ton of club control for a ton of guys that seemingly range from solid contributor to very good.  With a couple in there having star potential.  

Then you look up and down the performance of those guys this year and it's lower than expected due to not being on the field or just not playing as well as we would expect.  While others are just getting started and we're hoping the performance can match the expectations.  

This team has a much better base than any in the last 9 years.  But there are legit gaps and it's gonna take a continued financial commitment to fill them.  

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, tomsred said:

But are we going to get a tropical storm if Ohtani leaves?

Ohtani will be playing for Seattle next season. Money will not be as high as some think.

[Angels 1961]

5 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I like the young core of this team a lot.  

There's a ton of club control for a ton of guys that seemingly range from solid contributor to very good.  With a couple in there having star potential.  

Then you look up and down the performance of those guys this year and it's lower than expected due to not being on the field or just not playing as well as we would expect.  While others are just getting started and we're hoping the performance can match the expectations.  

This team has a much better base than any in the last 9 years.  But there are legit gaps and it's gonna take a continued financial commitment to fill them.  

Money will be coming off this off season. Using the money wisely is the key. If Ohtani leaves opens up DH for Trout, Rendon and others. I think Adell will end up in OF. O'Hoppe and Thaiss behind the plate will be cheap. I hope they resign Moore for 2 to 3 years. Go sign Josh Hader. 

[jsnpritchett]

6 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Money will be coming off this off season. Using the money wisely is the key. If Ohtani leaves opens up DH for Trout, Rendon and others. I think Adell will end up in OF. O'Hoppe and Thaiss behind the plate will be cheap. I hope they resign Moore for 2 to 3 years. Go sign Josh 

 Moore will turn 35 in the middle of next season.  Not a good idea to sign 35-year-old relievers to 3-year deals. 

[Docwaukee]

11 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Money will be coming off this off season. Using the money wisely is the key. If Ohtani leaves opens up DH for Trout, Rendon and others. I think Adell will end up in OF. O'Hoppe and Thaiss behind the plate will be cheap. I hope they resign Moore for 2 to 3 years. Go sign Josh Hader. 

They've got 120m in signed players for 2024.  Another 20m or so in expected Arb.  And about 7m for the remainder.  So call it about 150m committed right now.  If you get Shohei back, that's your whole budget and you need more bench and more relief pitching.  If instead you bring back Moore, Lopez and Moose, you've used up about 25m.  

And don't forget.  They've got almost nothing left to trade.  

[Revad]

3 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I like the young core of this team a lot.  

There's a ton of club control for a ton of guys that seemingly range from solid contributor to very good.  With a couple in there having star potential.  

Then you look up and down the performance of those guys this year and it's lower than expected due to not being on the field or just not playing as well as we would expect.  While others are just getting started and we're hoping the performance can match the expectations.  

This team has a much better base than any in the last 9 years.  But there are legit gaps and it's gonna take a continued financial commitment to fill them.  

Thanks Perry

[Angels in 2030]

I think some are being a bit homerish.  I’d trade spots with 25-27 teams when talking good young MLB talent.  Maybe more.  
If farm systems, 27-28 teams.  

[Blarg]

8 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Ohtani will be playing for Seattle next season. Money will not be as high as some think.

Ohtani wants to win. Seattle has no history of being a winning franchise and their current team is still a third place in their division team. They are where the Angels were when Ohtani joined them. I don't think he wants to repeat the last five years. 

[Angels 1961]

15 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

They've got 120m in signed players for 2024.  Another 20m or so in expected Arb.  And about 7m for the remainder.  So call it about 150m committed right now.  If you get Shohei back, that's your whole budget and you need more bench and more relief pitching.  If instead you bring back Moore, Lopez and Moose, you've used up about 25m.  

And don't forget.  They've got almost nothing left to trade.  

With that 150 how many positions covered? Your INF, OF, Catchers, 4 starters. I believe Ohtani is leaving. DH will be Trout, Rendon and others. Bench bring back Moose, you have Rengifo. Spend money on BP and starters.

[Angels 1961]

6 hours ago, Blarg said:

Ohtani wants to win. Seattle has no history of being a winning franchise and their current team is still a third place in their division team. They are where the Angels were when Ohtani joined them. I don't think he wants to repeat the last five years. 

Seattle is team on the rise with a very good rotation. Add a player like Ohtani makes them very good.