MLB agrees to make extra inning runner on second base rule permanent

[Jeff Fletcher]

9 hours ago, TempeAngel said:

Are you saying you would like to see that limit decreased to 11 or 12?

Yes

[Docwaukee]

18 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I would like to see a rule limiting the number of pitchers on the roster, because then I think you’d force teams to have pitchers work deeper, and pitch to contact more. I think the biggest problem in the game is too many strikeouts. 

and deaden the ball or move the fences back.  Or find some other way to make the hr more rare.  

[Taylor]

F'ing Manfred knows nothing about Arte.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Docwaukee said:

and deaden the ball or move the fences back.  Or find some other way to make the hr more rare.  

The best single solution has always been to move the fences back.

[AvsBroncosAngels05]

It's D1 baseball Opening Day today and I'm thrilled to see NCAA baseball hasn't been using it in the extra inning games today. Good to see college baseball still knows what's up. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

5 hours ago, asuangelsfan05 said:

It's D1 baseball Opening Day today and I'm thrilled to see NCAA baseball hasn't been using it in the extra inning games today. Good to see college baseball still knows what's up. 

They also have like 20 pitchers on the team and play 4 games a week, right?

[Docwaukee]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:01 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

The best single solution has always been to move the fences back.

I like the idea of limiting the number of pitchers along with that though because it gives a little to both sides.  Although bigger bases and no shift are benefits to the offense.  

[arch stanton]

Maybe a slight push back on the fences, deaden the ball a little, go back to ash bats, force defenders to have range with the shift ban, will be enough to tweak it back in the other direction because as is the players are just going to get stringer and make the current set up obsolete

Edited February 18, 2023 by arch stanton

[cals]

So you guys want less dingers?

[AvsBroncosAngels05]

3 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They also have like 20 pitchers on the team and play 4 games a week, right?

5 games out of 7 days isn't that unusual for a lot of college programs but 4 is most common sure.You can point to that number of pitchers on a college roster vs MLB roster ok... But if you have a few injuries in NCAA you can't make trades or pick anyone else off of waivers either. My NCAA team is ASU (hence the screen name) and 2 seasons ago they had 3 starting pitchers go down with TJ the same year. That's your whole weekend rotation.  And they worked what they did have on their roster to death to get through that season. An MLB team can call up pitchers from the minors or scour the waiver wire for arms but colleges can't. I appreciate your tweets and your Angels updates so I'm not looking to antagonize.. But just pointing out it's great to see traditional extra innings ball still somewhere. 

[TooCool]

Just wait until they have the game decided with a Home Run Derby like how the NHL does so with shootouts... -_-

[Revad]

1 hour ago, TooCool said:

Just wait until they have the game decided with a Home Run Derby like how the NHL does so with shootouts... -_-

But only pitchers can participate 

[Angels 1961]

For over 120 years game was played without a ghost runner. Leave the game alone. Will not have ghost runner in playoffs.

[AngelsLakersFan]

12 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I like the idea of limiting the number of pitchers along with that though because it gives a little to both sides.  Although bigger bases and no shift are benefits to the offense.  

When we look at the current game 'meta' at a high level, the number one issue is that pitchers are being used more optimally. Some of that is just due to analytics but it's also due to changes over the years in how teams are able to manage their rosters. Four man rotations have given way to five and now six. 25 man rosters became 26. The DH decreases the need to have a deep position player bench, the easy availability of hard throwers in the minor leagues and teams abilities to shuttle guys back and forth. 

Obviously this leads to pitchers throwing harder and contact becoming more difficult, which has helped change the optimal strategy for batters.

Personally I think they should've been looking at ways to increase the value of position player depth and potentially doing something like, maintaining a 26 player roster while having a, say, 18-20 player 'active roster' defined before a game. 

While I am a fan of bigger bases and a pitch clock, I haven't seen them propose any changes that might actually start addressing the root causes of the games issues. They need to find ways to reduce average pitcher velocity and increase the value of balls put in play at more typical exit velocities.

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

For over 120 years game was played without a ghost runner. Leave the game alone. Will not have ghost runner in playoffs.

The ghost runner is MLB's version of 'shrink-flation'

[Docwaukee]

5 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

When we look at the current game 'meta' at a high level, the number one issue is that pitchers are being used more optimally. Some of that is just due to analytics but it's also due to changes over the years in how teams are able to manage their rosters. Four man rotations have given way to five and now six. 25 man rosters became 26. The DH decreases the need to have a deep position player bench, the easy availability of hard throwers in the minor leagues and teams abilities to shuttle guys back and forth. 

Obviously this leads to pitchers throwing harder and contact becoming more difficult, which has helped change the optimal strategy for batters.

Personally I think they should've been looking at ways to increase the value of position player depth and potentially doing something like, maintaining a 26 player roster while having a, say, 18-20 player 'active roster' defined before a game. 

While I am a fan of bigger bases and a pitch clock, I haven't seen them propose any changes that might actually start addressing the root causes of the games issues. They need to find ways to reduce average pitcher velocity and increase the value of balls put in play at more typical exit velocities.

maybe a little from banning the shift.  Although it probably washes out because players are even more motivated to pull the ball so they can maximize exit velo.  Kinda why I like deadening the ball a bit.  And I do like the 'active roster' idea.  What if you could add someone from the reserve because of 'injury' but the person removed couldn't play again for 10 days.  Like a restricted list for relievers or something.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Docwaukee said:

maybe a little from banning the shift.  Although it probably washes out because players are even more motivated to pull the ball so they can maximize exit velo.  Kinda why I like deadening the ball a bit.  And I do like the 'active roster' idea.  What if you could add someone from the reserve because of 'injury' but the person removed couldn't play again for 10 days.  Like a restricted list for relievers or something.  

Ya I like that a lot more than defining and capping pitchers on the roster. I suppose you could run into an issue where teams game that rule and remove a player they are willing to send down in order to add a guy from the reserve. Either way I think it adds a bit more strategy, which is something the game is trying to legislate out.

The shift will increase the value of balls in play, but it will largely be on the higher exit velo's, which isnt inherently bad it's just that everything is relative in this game. Hard contact has always been rewarded, changes in the structure of the game have to be addressed in their relation to others. Essentially the value gradient between hard contact and medium/soft contact has to be altered more in favor of medium/soft contact if you want to produce a change in the optimal approach.

With that in mind, I actually think that juicing the balls, rather than deadening them, might have better results. Combined with pushing the fences back I think you have an interesting combo that could bring some speed and contact back into the game. Extra springiness off the bat helps all balls in play, and pushing the fences back reduces the benefit of the contact at higher exit velo's and optimal launch angles. Larger fields increase the value of faster players in relation to sluggers, both offensively and defensively.

[TempeAngel]

On 2/15/2023 at 1:25 AM, Jeff Fletcher said:

would like to see a rule limiting the number of pitchers on the roster, because then I think you’d force teams to have pitchers work deeper, and pitch to contact more. I think the biggest problem in the game is too many strikeouts. 

Want to circle back on this because it's interesting to think about the ripple effect. So if MLB goes from 13 pitchers to 11 pitchers teams would still have 5 starters and a 6 man bull pen. That should still be sufficient for the bull pen to get through games. You would see more starters going 6 or 7 innings.

I like it.

Do you think the MLBPA would go for it? There would be 60 fewer MLB pitchers and a higher risk of injury, at least initially. Those spots would go to another super utility guy, a third catcher or a full time DH.

It would result in more offense.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

21 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I like the idea of limiting the number of pitchers along with that though because it gives a little to both sides.  Although bigger bases and no shift are benefits to the offense.  

With Altuve stuck on the infield dirt instead of short right field, l guess we will see just how much his range has decreased over the years...

Edited February 19, 2023 by Ace-Of-Diamonds