Rojas over Ward for 3B?

[totdprods]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

and Jeff Baisley
and Lucho Jimenez
and Matt Brown
and Freddy Sandoval

but every once in awhile you get Robb Quinlan who was a useful and versatile guy that hit lefties well (.792 ops vs. lefties for his career).  

Guys like Rojas deserve at least a reasonable look.  


 

Personally I’m not expecting much from La Stella, and think Rojas has a shot at displacing him by late summer, if Rengifo doesn’t do it first.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I brought him up a couple weeks ago and was told his Minor League OPS wasnt good enough... 

Sometimes, lightning strikes! Sometimes, it doesnt....

[UndertheHalo]

I still think that they need to give Ward a chance to take hold of 3B and keep it.  I’d like to see them shuffle Cozart between 2B, SS, and 3B.  I just say SS so that maybe Simmons can get one day off a week.  If Fletcher/Rengifo lock down 2B great.  If they don’t and Cozart isn’t a disaster let him have 2B.  If Ward isn’t showing any life and the other 2 are let Cozart play at 3B (even though I didn’t think he looked good there last year)

anyway.  They treated this offseason like it didn’t matter if they made a run or not.  Fine.  Let the prospects we’ve been waiting for have a chance.  Let’s see what we have.  It’s going to be extremely annoying to me if September rolls around and the sense is that we didn’t give Ward enough of a look to know if he’s a guy we can consider viable as a starter because of Cozart. Ward in particular I want to see get long look.  

Edited March 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Chuck]

La Stella sucks. I haven't seen anything I like about him so far this spring. 

[WeatherWonk]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

I still think that they need to give Ward a chance to take hold of 3B and keep it.  I’d like to see them shuffle Cozart between 2B, SS, and 3B.  I just say SS so that maybe Simmons can get one day off a week.  If Fletcher/Rengifo lock down 2B great.  If they don’t and Cozart isn’t a disaster let him have 2B.  If Ward isn’t showing any life and the other 2 are let Cozart play at 3B (even though I didn’t think he looked good there last year)

anyway.  They treated this offseason like it didn’t matter if they made a run or not.  Fine.  Let the prospects we’ve been waiting for have a chance.  Let’s see what we have.  It’s going to be extremely annoying to me if September rolls around and the sense is that we didn’t give Ward enough of a look to know if he’s a guy we can consider viable as a starter because of Cozart. Ward in particular I want to see get long look.  

Ward' got a decent look last year (144 PA). He played virtually every game from mid August on.  And it was not pretty.

He leads all of ST in errors committed. Pitchers work on things in ST that can produce bad results. Hitters do, too. But fielders?

He's striking out about 30% of the time. Walking less than 5% of the time. Two doubles and one HR in 44 PA.

Much like last year, an injured Cozart could give him another opportunity at the ML level. But he really should be working on things at AAA, for another half season. I hope that is where he starts. 

[Lou]

39 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

La Stella sucks. I haven't seen anything I like about him so far this spring. 

I agree. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

La Stella sucks. I haven't seen anything I like about him so far this spring. 

For a guy who has about 1,000 PA's in the big leagues, I think you can pretty much ignore spring training.

He's got a .345 OBP over those 1000 PA's. That's why he's going to be on the team. Also, the other options for that spot (Ward, Rengifo) are probably better off playing every day in AAA.

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

For a guy who has about 1,000 PA's in the big leagues, I think you can pretty much ignore spring training.

He's got a .345 OBP over those 1000 PA's. That's why he's going to be on the team. Also, the other options for that spot (Ward, Rengifo) are probably better off playing every day in AAA.

I wasn't a big fan of the trade, I'm still not really, but Cozart and Fletcher aren't starting caliber on most teams, so depth is necessary. Plus if he and Bour actually play up to their abilities,  the Angels will have sneakily added two hitters with a .345 OBP to the bottom of a lineup that desperately needs more runners on. And he will have some it for like 3 million dollars.

[UndertheHalo]

I don’t really get what benefit Ward gets from another half season in AAA. Everyone seems agree that it’s pretty likely that Cozart won’t be that good.  Fletchers bat plays at 2B.  A lot less so at 3B.  And that’s being optimistic ! It seems like a lot people think he’s more of a utility player then an everyday guy.  I don’t agree with the idea that Ward is going to magically figure something out that’ll help him in the big leagues in 250 or less AB’s against inferior AAA pitching.  He’s already tee’d off against minor league pitching.  As far as I can tell.  Ward is the Angels guy at 3B.  They should just give him the position and see what happens.  

I don’t get why it’s fine to let a shitty veteran work through things for months but not let a young player, who’s potentially significant to the outlook of the team going forward have the same type of shot.  It’s dumb.  They signed Cozart to be a 2B.  If they insist he plays, let him split time with the utility player.  Or like I said before cycle him around the diamond. 

[Blarg]

If you are thinking long term, which the organization certainly is, you delay Ward's clock if you think he can stick at the position. But objectively he is not a good defensive third baseman so AAA is probably the best place for him to hone those skills while the Angels are going with a limited bench now that Heaney won't be starting the season on the 25 man roster. 

[UndertheHalo]

I guess I’m not clear on the service time thing.  I thought that he played enough last year that the clock is already ticking on him ? I’m wrong I guess then ? At least that makes sense. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

49 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I guess I’m not clear on the service time thing.  I thought that he played enough last year that the clock is already ticking on him ? I’m wrong I guess then ? At least that makes sense. 

There are different "clocks." One is for control and one is for salary.

In any case, Taylor Ward isn't really the caliber of player in which you'd worry about that sort of thing. The greater issue is his development.

[UndertheHalo]

28 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

There are different "clocks." One is for control and one is for salary.

In any case, Taylor Ward isn't really the caliber of player in which you'd worry about that sort of thing. The greater issue is his development.

I mean if they don’t view him as that sort of player then it sort of makes you wonder why they weren’t more interested guys like Marwin Gonzalez and Mike Moustakas.  Not like they got huge contracts. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Chuck]

11 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I mean if they don’t view him as that sort of player then it sort of makes you wonder why they weren’t more interested guys like Marwin Gonzalez it Mike Moustakas.  Not like they got huge contracts. 

Yep. I'd rather have Moustakas or Gonzalez than La Stella. Sorry, despite his .340 career OBP he offers little to nothing else. Lite bat, average defense. Takes a walk every now and then and that's it. 

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Yep. I'd rather have Moustakas or Gonzalez than La Stella. Sorry, despite his .340 career OBP he offers little to nothing else. Lite bat, average defense. Takes a walk every now and then and that's it. 

I think LaStella is fine as like a depth utility guy.  Specifically for middle infield positions.  If he ends up being bettter then that.  Great ! But I hate him at 1st or 3rd. 

I’m with you tho man. I’m pretty skeptical.  

Edited March 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Chuck]

20 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I think LaStella is fine as like a depth utility guy.  Specifically for middle infield positions.  If he ends up being bettter then that.  Great ! But I hate him at 1st or 3rd. 

I’m with you tho man. I’m pretty skeptical.  

I'm just afraid Ausmus will make him a starter, even after Cozart is ready and bench Fletcher, giving him the utility role. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

I guess I’m not clear on the service time thing.  I thought that he played enough last year that the clock is already ticking on him ? I’m wrong I guess then ? At least that makes sense. 

one a player is added to the 40 man, I think their options start to expire regardless of how much time they spend in the bigs.  Yet being on the major league roster contributes to service time that gets you closer to being arb eligible.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don’t really get what benefit Ward gets from another half season in AAA. Everyone seems agree that it’s pretty likely that Cozart won’t be that good.  Fletchers bat plays at 2B.  A lot less so at 3B.  And that’s being optimistic ! It seems like a lot people think he’s more of a utility player then an everyday guy.  I don’t agree with the idea that Ward is going to magically figure something out that’ll help him in the big leagues in 250 or less AB’s against inferior AAA pitching.  He’s already tee’d off against minor league pitching.  As far as I can tell.  Ward is the Angels guy at 3B.  They should just give him the position and see what happens.  

I don’t get why it’s fine to let a shitty veteran work through things for months but not let a young player, who’s potentially significant to the outlook of the team going forward have the same type of shot.  It’s dumb.  They signed Cozart to be a 2B.  If they insist he plays, let him split time with the utility player.  Or like I said before cycle him around the diamond. 

Ward doesn't strike me as a ML caliber player at this point. The K's are too high and the defense needs too much work. I don't see much reason to give him a shot until he proves otherwise. Cozart may not be any good but I think the Angels would like to see him prove that before they write off the $20 mill or so they still owe him.

[WeatherWonk]

4 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don’t really get what benefit Ward gets from another half season in AAA. Everyone seems agree that it’s pretty likely that Cozart won’t be that good.  Fletchers bat plays at 2B.  A lot less so at 3B.  And that’s being optimistic ! It seems like a lot people think he’s more of a utility player then an everyday guy.  I don’t agree with the idea that Ward is going to magically figure something out that’ll help him in the big leagues in 250 or less AB’s against inferior AAA pitching.  He’s already tee’d off against minor league pitching.  As far as I can tell.  Ward is the Angels guy at 3B.  They should just give him the position and see what happens.  

I don’t get why it’s fine to let a shitty veteran work through things for months but not let a young player, who’s potentially significant to the outlook of the team going forward have the same type of shot.  It’s dumb.  They signed Cozart to be a 2B.  If they insist he plays, let him split time with the utility player.  Or like I said before cycle him around the diamond. 

Well, Cozart hasnt really gotten a shot with the Angels yet, either. Yet they are going to be paying him 9 mil a season, or something like that.

I think Cozart is less likely to hurt our chances on a playoff spot, than Ward right now. Really, besides the Cozart injury, I dont think Ward would have come up in mid August, unless we were already out of the playoff picture. Cozart will play good defense and he will get better ABs than Ward with men on base. No, he wont hit as many HRs as Ward. 

Having Ward "learn" while we are playing out the string (last year) doesnt make sense while we still have a shot. Let him get experience in less important situations. Especially THAT defense!! 

[TroutAdell]

6 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don’t really get what benefit Ward gets from another half season in AAA. Everyone seems agree that it’s pretty likely that Cozart won’t be that good.  Fletchers bat plays at 2B.  A lot less so at 3B.  And that’s being optimistic ! It seems like a lot people think he’s more of a utility player then an everyday guy.  I don’t agree with the idea that Ward is going to magically figure something out that’ll help him in the big leagues in 250 or less AB’s against inferior AAA pitching.  He’s already tee’d off against minor league pitching.  As far as I can tell.  Ward is the Angels guy at 3B.  They should just give him the position and see what happens.  

I don’t get why it’s fine to let a shitty veteran work through things for months but not let a young player, who’s potentially significant to the outlook of the team going forward have the same type of shot.  It’s dumb.  They signed Cozart to be a 2B.  If they insist he plays, let him split time with the utility player.  Or like I said before cycle him around the diamond. 

Have you watched him play defense this spring? He has made 6 errors mostly because his throws are all over the place. Third base has been a black hole in this organization since Glaus. I don’t think Ward is the answer. 

[Stradling]

I really hate the narrative that 3rd base has been a black hole since Glaus left.  Figgins put up seasons of 3.9, 3.4 and 7.7 WARs.  Callaspo also had seasons of 3.5 and 3.4.  Were they traditional 3rd basemen, no, but they got the job done.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

I mean if they don’t view him as that sort of player then it sort of makes you wonder why they weren’t more interested guys like Marwin Gonzalez and Mike Moustakas.  Not like they got huge contracts. 

Because they probably did want huge contracts at the time the Angels had money to spend. 

And you really only worry about the clock and service time on players you think will be All-Star caliber. Even if they thought Ward had a chance to be a major league average everyday guy, they wouldn’t worry about that stuff. 

[m0nkey]

Taylor ward definitely isn’t a guy you have to play the service time game with. 

[Docwaukee]

considering that they started Ward's clock last year, I don't think they're concerned about it.  

[UndertheHalo]

I don’t think I’m overly enthusiastic about Angels prospects.  Ward even, I understand very possibly wont pan out long term.  Still, I’ve been a little hopeful about him with all the progress he showed last year.  I have been hoping that this year he’d be able to lock himself into an everyday role, thus taking a big problem off the Angels check list.  It seems that maybe, I’ve been a little bit off in my understanding of where he is at this point.  I’ve had the impression that he’s ready to have a shot at grabbing 3B.  When it comes to prospects, I generally think the thing to do is hand them a lot of consistent AB’s and see what happens.  Maybe it’s not time yet. Still, if he’s not the guy.  Or if the Angels don’t feel like they can give him an extended look.  I have to wonder about why they didn’t do anything in FA.  Realistically, they don’t have a lot going on in the near term prospects wise other then Ward. 

Jeff is saying they don’t want a big contract.  Fine.  There were guys that signed for relatively light contracts.  The market is depressed the price is what it is.  We keep talking about how they’re going to be in a win window soon.  Without introducing guys like Ward into an everyday role soon.  The idea that the Angels are close seems kind of like bullshit.  In 2 years we’re going to have a team of almost all 25 year olds or younger and be a winner ? Most of them basically rookies ? That seems far fetched.  Next years FA class isn’t deeper then this one.  Hope for the best I guess. 

And I get that the defense is also an issue. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by UndertheHalo