AngelsWin.com Today: Who's In Your Angels Legendary Lineup?

[Lou]

Carew's OPS+ was 119

Wally's was 121 

Carew could steal bases, too. But, alas, he isn't white, so . . . 

[Docwaukee]

worst halo seasons  ever. 

1993 Polonia LF   -2.6 WAR
2005 Steve Finley CF  -1.3 WAR
2017 Pujols  DH  -1.9 WAR
1982 Reggie Jackson  RF  -1.5 WAR
1992 Gaetti 1b   -1.1  WAR
1998 Dave Hollins 3b  -0.9 WAR
1995 Damion Easley 2b  -0.4 WAR
1984 Bob Boone C  -0.6 WAR
1984 Dick Schofield SS  -0.6 WAR



 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

worst halo seasons  ever. 

1993 Polonia LF   -2.6 WAR
2005 Steve Finley CF  -1.3 WAR
2017 Pujols  DH  -1.9 WAR
1982 Reggie Jackson  RF  -1.5 WAR
1992 Gaetti 1b   -1.1  WAR
1998 Dave Hollins 3b  -0.9 WAR
1995 Damion Easley 2b  -0.4 WAR
1984 Bob Boone C  -0.6 WAR
1984 Dick Schofield SS  -0.6 WAR



 

I was looking at Steve Finley earlier, when FS took me to task about Scioscia playing him.  Looking at that 2005 team, we had a lot of outfielders, but if you didn’t put Finley in CF, then you had to choose between Garret or Juan Rivera.  That sounds bad defensively.  By bad I mean atrocious.  Five years earlier Garret played CF and was adequate, but the year before is when he really started to slow down.  

[Ohtaniland]

[Tank]

41 minutes ago, Lou said:

racist

and anti-semite!

too bad carew wasn't also a dentist. i'd knock him for that, too.

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

I was looking at Steve Finley earlier, when FS took me to task about Scioscia playing him.  Looking at that 2005 team, we had a lot of outfielders, but if you didn’t put Finley in CF, then you had to choose between Garret or Juan Rivera.  That sounds bad defensively.  By bad I mean atrocious.  Five years earlier Garret played CF and was adequate, but the year before is when he really started to slow down.  

Carlos Beltran signed a 7/119 contract that year.  He put up 32.3 WAR over that contract.  I remember being a big fan.  Not that we ever had a shot.  Finley was entering age 40.  We lost in the LDS to boston. 

Guillen had a meltdown so we lost him.  Glaus and Eck became free agents.  We picked up Ocab and had Mcpherson waiting to take over 3b.  Figgy stepped up instead.  

Those were the days of 'please trade for a big bat' with Stoney sitting on his hands.   

At the time, we had the 5th highest payroll though of 95 mil.  Beltran got 11mil that year and we paid Finley 6 mil.  

I don't like the retrospectoscope prior to 2009 because any move could have meant no Mike Trout, but at the time, Beltran is who I was hoping for.  I also wanted Edgar Renteria over Ocab and he sucked that year (although he was a 4 WAR player the two after that).  

That was also the year when Matt Clement was on the 5 and Randy Winn was our guy at the deadline.  Figgy also stepped in and play a decent number of games in CF doing very well.  There was also buzz of moving Erstad to CF and letting Kotchman play full time.  

In the end, one more bat would have been great.  but Mike Trout.  

[Docwaukee]

33 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

In a 5 year span from age 32 to 36, GA put up 3.4 fWAR.  

during that same age span, Albert Pujols put up 8.8 fWAR.  

[Dave Saltzer]

Okay, some things that needed to be added. On our all legendary team, our top two prospects have to be Rondon and Ralston Schmidt.

I knew someone on here would create the all-time worst list of players. And, based on WAR, those are the worst, but think about it in terms of contracts. Any legendary bad team has to have an OF of Hamilton, Finley, and GMJr. All of these players got paid to not play for us, which means that they can't generate their true WAR value.

Doc, what would are all-time legendary bad contract team look like?

[Lou]

Where the hell is Randy Winn? 

the whiting of the Angels continues 

[Tank]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

Where the hell is Randy Winn? 

the whiting of the Angels continues 

check the conspiracy thread.

turns out randy wynn was a flat-earther who believed the jews controlled the weather which in turn allowed the cia to kill kennedy and frame oswald, who really was a patsy.

[stormngt]

16 hours ago, Lou said:

I'll take:

Benji over Boone

Carew over Joyner

Simmons over Fregosi 

Simmons over Fregosi is a tough call.  Probably a good call but tough at least.  Like Carew over Joyner.  Also like the idea of Erstadt at first over Joyner 

Boone over Benji.

[Angelsjunky]

The Fregosi-Simmons debate is largely due to a lack of definition. Fregosi had a much greater career as an Angel than Simmons - so far. But peak? That is closer, but Fregosi should still get the edge. Which brings us to Recency Bias: we're watching Simmons so can see how great he was, but the numbers tell us that Fregosi was a better all-around player. In the end, picking Simmons over Fregosi is a subjective pick based upon personal preference and Recency Bias, but isn't supported by statistics.

And Doc, Vlad in LF?

 

[Angel Oracle]

Thank you Dave.     The only disagreement I would have, and it's hopefully just a short term thing, is with Ohtani as the 6th starter.   I get why you did that, but for the short term until Ohtani has some solid Halos time under his belt, I'd put Lackey (over Washburn) in that 6th starter spot. 

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

The Fregosi-Simmons debate is largely due to a lack of definition. Fregosi had a much greater career as an Angel than Simmons - so far. But peak? That is closer, but Fregosi should still get the edge. Which brings us to Recency Bias: we're watching Simmons so can see how great he was, but the numbers tell us that Fregosi was a better all-around player. In the end, picking Simmons over Fregosi is a subjective pick based upon personal preference and Recency Bias, but isn't supported by statistics.

And Doc, Vlad in LF?

 

My pick of Simmons is that he's by far the best fielding shortstop this franchise has ever had playing for them.

It isn't even close. 

Edit: and I love Fregosi. He used to go over to my uncle's house (as did other players) and he was a great guy. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Lou

[Dick B Back]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Thank you Dave.     The only disagreement I would have, and it's hopefully just a short term thing, is with Ohtani as the 6th starter.   I get why you did that, but for the short term until Ohtani has some solid Halos time under his belt, I'd put Washburn in that 6th starter spot. 

Let’s at least wait until Ohtani can make it through a non-fragile season.

[stormngt]

16 hours ago, Tank said:

carew's seven year avg. for the halos:

2.5 hr

40 rbi

.312/.391/.388/.779 avg/obp/slg/ops

OPS+ 118

while i was always glad he hit for the halos, his lack of power is a deal breaker for me.

The team had plenty of power (Grich, Downing, Baylor, later add Decinces and Jackson)

[stormngt]

16 hours ago, Dochalo said:

worst halo seasons  ever. 

1993 Polonia LF   -2.6 WAR
2005 Steve Finley CF  -1.3 WAR
2017 Pujols  DH  -1.9 WAR
1982 Reggie Jackson  RF  -1.5 WAR
1992 Gaetti 1b   -1.1  WAR
1998 Dave Hollins 3b  -0.9 WAR
1995 Damion Easley 2b  -0.4 WAR
1984 Bob Boone C  -0.6 WAR
1984 Dick Schofield SS  -0.6 WAR



 

Wait....didn't Jackson lead the league in HRs in 82?

[Angel Oracle]

The infield and catcher, outside of Pujols, haven't really had any true underachievers who were paid good money.  

Pitching:  Nibs and Blanton are really the only ones here.

OF: A lot of guys here, including Finley and the real bad ones GMJHGH, Mr. Pop-up Wells, and Hackilton

Honorable Mention in the minors: Baldoquin 

 

[Angelsjunky]

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The infield and catcher, outside of Pujols, haven't really had any true underachievers who were paid good money.  

Pitching:  Nibs and Blanton are really the only ones here.

OF: A lot of guys here, including Finley and the real bad ones GMJHGH, Mr. Pop-up Wells, and Hackilton

Honorable Mention in the minors: Baldoquin 

 

Evidently you forgot about Mo Vaughn. He was Pujols before Pujols.

[Angelsjunky]

18 minutes ago, Lou said:

My pick of Simmons is that he's by far the best fielding shortstop this franchise has ever had playing for them.

It isn't even close. 

Edit: and I love Fregosi. He used to go over to my uncle's house (as did other players) and he was a great guy. 

Yeah, I get it. But the numbers tell us that Fregosi was the greatest Angels shortstop of all time, and it isn't particularly close. Right now. Give Andrelton another 4-5 years and there might be a good argument.

 

[Rico]

No Don Baylor fans?  He won an MVP for us while playing LF.

[Angelsjunky]

My List would be:

1B Rod Carew

2B Bobby Grich

SS Jim Fregosi

3B Troy Glaus

LF Brian Downing

CF Mike Trout

RF Tim Salmon

DH Vlad Guerrero

(I choose Vlad at DH over Salmon because he DHed more)

Rotation: Nolan Ryan, Chuck Finley, Frank Tanana, Mike Witt, Jered Weaver (honorable mentions: John Lackey, Dean Chance)

Bullpen:  Troy Percival, Francisco Rodriguez, Scot Shields, Brian Harvey, Brendan Donnelly, and not sure...maybe Mark Eichhorn?

[Lou]

24 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yeah, I get it. But the numbers tell us that Fregosi was the greatest Angels shortstop of all time, and it isn't particularly close. Right now. Give Andrelton another 4-5 years and there might be a good argument.

 

I'm using my eyes and knowledge of baseball.

nerd ; )

[Angel Oracle]

30 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Evidently you forgot about Mo Vaughn. He was Pujols before Pujols.

True, he was both solid and baddddd for the money.    Solid 1999 and 2000, non-existent due to injury in 2001, and then traded for Appier before 2002 with 3 years still left on contract for $50 million although balanced with the $21 million still due Appier.

[Tank]

41 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Evidently you forgot about Mo Vaughn. He was Pujols before Pujols.

bullcrap. this mythology that vaughn was a bad player for the angels is just pure crap and a lot of you need to just knock it off. here are his numbers, which are averages for the two years he played for us (he was injured for the entire third season he was here and then traded the next year):

avg/obp/slg/ops

277/362/503/865

25.5 db

34.5 hr

112.5 rbi

ops+ 117

i would absolutely take those numbers from pujols today without hesitation.