Please Quit Saying This Team is Talented!

[Angelsjunky]

Stormngt, if we understand "talent" as meaning how well a player is capable of performing then we need to look at their ability over the last year or two. "Underachieving" means that they aren't playing (this year) to their actual talent level. I think it is safe to say that the 2013 Angels, overall, are underachieving and far more talented than their 14-24 record would imply.

 

So comparing 2013 performance to "true talent level" I'd say:

 

Hugely underachieving: Pujols, Hamilton, Weaver (mainly by virtue of injury)

Underachieving: Iannetta, Trout, Aybar, Wilson, Hanson, Blanton (he's not THIS bad)

About right: Kendrick, Callaspo, Trumbo, Bourjos, Vargas, Williams, Frieri

 

No one is playing over their heads right now. A week or two maybe Trumbo, Bourjos, and Jimenez were, but Trumbo has come back to closer to his true talent level, Bourjos got injured, and Jimenez belly-flopped. But the majority of the team is playing below their true talent level.

 

Trout is getting there. His numbers now (.283/.348/.503) are reflective of his reduced BABIP (.320), but I expect all of that to go up and that he'll end up hitting around .300/.370/.540 or so for the year. The key is Pujols and Hamilton. Even if they're no longer players they were, they should be much better than this - they have a .709 and .605 OPS respectively! I don't think we'll ever see a 1.000, or maybe not even a .950 OPS from Pujols again, but certainly he's capable of .850-.900+, as is Hamilton.

 

On the pitching side of things, I do agree that Vargas, Williams, and Hanson are all around average. But Blanton isn't this bad - I expect mediocre performance, not terrible performance. Wilson has been about average as well and was very good until the second half of last year - I don't know what happened to him. Weaver wasn't good when he pitched and has been injured, so either way he's performing less than his true talent level.

 

So yeah, I think this is a very talented team that is underachieving.

[SmallSampleSize]

Totally agree with OP.  Keep in mind though you are saying how overy talented we thought the team was.  I think you mean Angel fans, not the rest of baseball.

 

And I'll even question Weaver.  No doubt what he HAS been for us, just like we know what Pujols WAS.

 

I have very large question mark about his velocity.  He's probably in the top 3 for my favorite Angel pitchers ever, but I'm concerned.  Maybe it's the crap with the rest of the team year after year that has me gun shy now.

 

Might not be a big deal.  We'll know over the rest of the season.

 

I see no way to fix this mess.  None. 

 

Not quickly and not easily.  And with the farm being what it is, ugh.

[nate]

Being talented and realizing it are two different things.  This team is loaded with talent, and some shit.

[stormngt]

 

1. Schuk is below average a replacement player at best. He's an average replacement player and he is.... a REPLACEMENT PLAYER

2. Trout is talented, but is far from the best player in baseball where he was last year. So +1 talented player - far from the best player in baseball? Not really that far but he hasn't been as good as last year - yet.

3. Pujols WAS the best hitter in baseball, but now can't hit his weight. - Pujols is injured and should sit. But, he is talented. So +2 talented players

4. Hamilton WAS a beast, but his body was invaded by the spirit of Jeff Mathis - Hamilton is a talented player who is vastly underperforming so far - he is a talented player nonetheless. So +3 talented players

5. Trumbo is above average slugger who is inconsistent. Trumbo is a talented player and a legit power bat. Inconsistent? Ya what player in baseball isn't a little inconsistent. So +4 talented players

6. Kendrick is a solid 2b, but no where near the elite. Kendrick is solid defensively and offensively.  He's above average and he is talented. So +5 talented players

7. Callaspo is an average player with no power playing a power hitting position - Callaspo is average and doesn't have a lot of power. What position he plays vs his power numbers is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. We don't need him to supply power. We need him to provide solid defense and good contact/obp. For a bottom half hitter - he's doing fine. He provides solid but not spectacular defense. Average MLB player is talented. So +6 talented players

8. Ianetta can get on base but couldn't throw out my five year if he was trying to steal second. Ianetta is a decent average catcher, nothing special who is underachieving his norms this year. Average catcher in the MLB is still talented. So +7 in talented players

9.  Harris is below average replacement player at best. Harris is an average super utility replacement player not a below average replacement player.

 

Bourjos is an above average CF who happens to be injured right now. +8 talented players

_________________________________

 

so, yes you are wrong. This team is talented but as has been stated elsewhere, is underachieving to this point. Your evaluation stinks.

 

Funny, you comment Pujols as a talented player and Bourjos but both are injured.  So we don't have them now do we????????

 

Mark Trumbo who you rank at talented is:

 

#103 in WAR for the league.....that seems average to me.

His OPS is # 19th in the league for 1b.  That seems awfully average to me.

As a DH #5 out of 6th listed.  Again that seems awfully average to me.

 

Kendrick is 19th in the league for OPS among 2nd baseman....again...sounds average to me.

18th in BA...sounds average

His WAR is 132

 

Callasop:  Callaspo is 193 in WAR, his OPS is goog for 30th in the league...AVERAGE!  (you could say he is having a down year but look at his career stats, they are not far from the norm)

 

These guys are not special players that would indicate the ability to dominate the league and lead you into the playoffs.

 

They only real offense players who are capable of leading a team into the playoffs are:  Hamilton, Pujols, and Trout.  Hamilton is a shell of himself and Pujols as you say is hurt.  Trout can't do it by himself. 

 

So this team as stands the field has what?  three quality players:  Trout, Hamilton, Trumbo (gave you that because based on statistics he is barely above average).

 

Now, let's look at pitching....who the hell on that staff is talented?

[stormngt]

Stormngt, if we understand "talent" as meaning how well a player is capable of performing then we need to look at their ability over the last year or two. "Underachieving" means that they aren't playing (this year) to their actual talent level. I think it is safe to say that the 2013 Angels, overall, are underachieving and far more talented than their 14-24 record would imply.

 

So comparing 2013 performance to "true talent level" I'd say:

 

Hugely underachieving: Pujols, Hamilton, Weaver (mainly by virtue of injury)

Underachieving: Iannetta, Trout, Aybar, Wilson, Hanson, Blanton (he's not THIS bad)

About right: Kendrick, Callaspo, Trumbo, Bourjos, Vargas, Williams, Frieri

 

I will agree with Kendrick, Callaspo, Trumbo, Bourjos, Vargas, Willams, and Freiri.  I would also add:  Williams, Downs, Conger,

I do not agree that Aybar is under achieving (at least with the bat.  His numbers look comparable to his norm. 

I do not agree with Wilson, if you look at what Wilson did last year and what he is doing this year he is the same type of pitcher. 

 

Underachieving:  Ianetta, but not by much,

                            Blanton, yea would agree he isn't this bad....but he is BAD

 

Highly under achieving:  Hamilton

 

I can not say Pujols, or Weaver is under achieving because they are injured.  They do not have the same capabilities.  So they can't under achieve.

 

If you want to say this team is under achieving based on what it should do if everyone is healthy and plays as to their norms than yea I would agree.  However, I look at under achieving as playing below ability.  If you are injured:  Weaver, Pujols, Bourjos, Madson, Burnett, Aybar for a month, Callaspo for a month, than you can't under achieve when you can't perform.

[Lifetime]

uh yes stormin', we do have them. They're both on the roster and part of this team and therefore make up the "talent" this team has.

 

Mark Trumbo who you rank at talented is:

 

#103 in WAR for the league.....that seems average to me.

His OPS is # 19th in the league for 1b.  That seems awfully average to me.

As a DH #5 out of 6th listed.  Again that seems awfully average to me.

 

Well stormin', Mark is talented. by the way, you're rankings are incorrect.

 

Among AL 1B, Mark ranks 8th in OPS but 12th in MLB so slightly above average.

He hasn't had enough AB's out of the DH spot to even consider those rankings.

His WAR is 5th among AL 1B and 7th among MLB 1B - so again - above average

 

Callaspo, as I stated, is an average MLB player. However, what you seem to fail to comprehend, an average MLB player is in fact talented. 

 

Now you're changing the argument from talented to "special players" or I would assume you mean elite. You don't have to have a roster of elite players to be a talented team. This team has talent. None of the players, on their own, elite or otherwise, is going to lead the team to the playoffs. NONE.OF.THEM.

 

As for pitching: Weaver is very talented. After that the staff is mostly average to below average. Again, just because the team has players on the DL does not mean the team does not have them as part of their core of talented players. They would most likely be performing much better if they hadn't suffered injuries to a few of the key positions but there isn't really a question of whether or not this team has talent and to date has been largely underperforming vs their talent level. This team has talent.

[Chuck]

This team is talented. 

[yk9001]

The fat guy on the Royals rapping out doubles last night is more talented than Hamilton.

[Fontana Halo]

Excluding the Yankees in 2009 I can't remember the last time the most talented team in baseball won the World Series.

[yk9001]

It is 2013.  Alot of the players you think are talented have passed their expiration date.  Pujols, Hamilton, Weaver.

[Halononymous]

There are only 750 people on the earth currently on a MLB roster. Every one of them is talented, including every player on the Angels and those who've had the privilege to make an appearance. Sometimes good teams play bad. Perspective.

[SmallSampleSize]

It is 2013.  Alot of the players you think are talented have passed their expiration date.  Pujols, Hamilton, Weaver.

 

This.  Over and over.

 

Except I'd wait to know if Weaver has passed his peak.  He's such a competitor he might learn to use different pitches as many great pitchers have been able to do as they age - but many cannot find that formula as well.

 

And yes, we know the number of MLB players and how hard it is and how talented they all are, blah blah. 

 

Amazingly, talent is relative.

[AZMike]

This.  Over and over.

 

Except I'd wait to know if Weaver has passed his peak.  He's such a competitor he might learn to use different pitches as many great pitchers have been able to do as they age - but many cannot find that formula as well.

I think Weaver may remain a good pitcher for a whole his years of being a dominant ace like his near cy-Young year in 2011 are done.

[SmallSampleSize]

I think Weaver may remain a good pitcher for a whole his years of being a dominant ace like his near cy-Young year in 2011 are done.

 

I hope so.  Give me a team full of Weavers, Erstys, and even good 'ole Willits and I'll watch them day in and day out and barely complain (I hope) - win or lose.

 

Their competitive nature and drive is why I watch sports.

 

Yep, Hamilton and Pujols might still be more talented but I see someone jog to first or not dive for a ball they could have WHILE getting paid 20x as much, it pisses me off to no end.

[Vladfan]

It is 2013. Alot of the players you think are talented have passed their expiration date. Pujols, Hamilton, Weaver.

Again..... Laughable!

[yk9001]

Nobody's laughing.

[Vladfan]

Nobody's laughing.

I am..... At saying that they are expired.

[Angel Oracle]

Does Arte even understand that you can't have a few talented players and a bunch of mediocre players.

Uhh Arte, this isn't basketball.

How truly knowledgeable about baseball is Arte?

[Lifetime]

Don't let YKSimers get under your skin vladfan

[Vladfan]

Don't let YKSimers get under your skin vladfan

LOL.... Not under my skin.

[jsnpritchett]

The fat guy on the Royals rapping out doubles last night is more talented than Hamilton.

 

No, no, no, yk, you're wrong: Blanton says that all of those hits were bad-luck doinkers and broken bats.  Get it straight!

[AngelsLakersFan]

Let's look at it this way... how many players do we really expect to play significantly better over the rest of the season, and how big of an effect will that have on the team.

 

Hamilton is really the only player I feel we can expect to play significantly better, but I'm not sure how big of an effect he'll have. 

[EDinTUSTIN]

Besides Weaver where am I wrong?  Which by the way that was a typo, I meant to put down Wilson.

I think you made a pretty good case in your original post, storm. Myself, I still think this team underachieves, but that is my opinion. I also think they have poor preparation and are sorely lacking in the basic fundamentals that are necessary in being a successful ML team. We have a bunch of players, many of them highly talented, but what they lack are intangibles and a basic baseball IQ.

 

I went back and checked your original post, so unless you edited it, I don't see where you said Weaver was average. Your only mention of Weaver is in the line, 'Add Aybar, Weaver, Madsen, Burnett........we'd be better'. Not sure how others implied you stated that Weaver was average.

[Lifetime]

He edited it

[AZMike]

I think you made a pretty good case in your original post, storm. Myself, I still think this team underachieves, but that is my opinion. I also think they have poor preparation and are sorely lacking in the basic fundamentals that are necessary in being a successful ML team. We have a bunch of players, many of them highly talented, but what they lack are intangibles and a basic baseball IQ.

 

I went back and checked your original post, so unless you edited it, I don't see where you said Weaver was average. Your only mention of Weaver is in the line, 'Add Aybar, Weaver, Madsen, Burnett........we'd be better'. Not sure how others implied you stated that Weaver was average.

He mistakenly wrote Weaver when he was talking about Wilson.