The case for Marte over Escobar

[ettin]

2 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

It's my belief that the FO doesn't give a rat's ass about defensive metrics in Escobar's case. I believe they think his defense is solid and better all around than Marte's. They also value his bat and role in the lineup far more than Marte's. Escobar is the clear choice for third base in their eyes. Marte also serves a better purpose for the team off the bench. 

Personally, I don't care! 

I think both of these statements are the truest ones regarding Escobar's and Marte's value to the team in 2017 only. However I do believe that they feel Marte is a better defender at the hot corner but Marte's bat is more middle of the order or back of the order even rather than a lead-off type that Yunel has proven pretty good at. The team currently doesn't seem to have the right player mix to replace Escobar's lead-off ability.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

It's my belief that the FO doesn't give a rat's ass about defensive metrics in Escobar's case. I believe they think his defense is solid and better all around than Marte's. They also value his bat and role in the lineup far more than Marte's. Escobar is the clear choice for third base in their eyes. Marte also serves a better purpose for the team off the bench. 

Personally, I don't care! 

they might have their own metrics that show escobar's defense is on par.  The eye test tells me otherwise and I think Marte is better at baseball.  But yes, they are significantly weighing Yunels .355 obp being right in front of Trout and Pujols.  

[Angel Oracle]

Could we see Espinosa and Simmons cheat a little more towards the left side of the INF, to lessen the ground that Escobar has to cover?  

Escobar is "the Statue" to some for a good reason (lack of range).

Of course, they still have to account for Cron's somewhat lack of range at 1B.

[Troll Daddy]

37 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Could we see Espinosa and Simmons cheat a little more towards the left side of the INF, to lessen the ground that Escobar has to cover?  

Escobar is "the Statue" to some for a good reason (lack of range).

Of course, they still have to account for Cron's somewhat lack of range at 1B.

I totally disagree with "the statue" comment. I think his range is superior to Marte's. Let's not forget that Escobar also is a solid shortstop. Third base and Catcher probably the two hardest positions. 

Just my opinion ... 

 

[Stradling]

No, he does not have superior range and if he does then he should try showing it.  When Escobar is given the starting job it will come down to the Angels valuing his bat over Marte's glove.  Or them valuing Marte's flexibility over giving him the starting gig.  SS and catcher are the most difficult positions hands down. 

[Troll Daddy]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No, he does not have superior range and if he does then he should try showing it.  When Escobar is given the starting job it will come down to the Angels valuing his bat over Marte's glove.  Or them valuing Marte's flexibility over giving him the starting gig.  SS and catcher are the most difficult positions hands down. 

Shortstop is very difficult but there's a reason why they call it the hot corner. It's very common for third basemen to lead the team in errors. 

 

[Docwaukee]

all I can say after watching the video is that in the last 3 years Escobar has gone full retard on defense. 

[Blarg]

On 12/13/2016 at 0:01 PM, Oz27 said:

I'm not sure I buy that theory to be honest. I've read plenty of research which casts doubt on that being something players have much control over and not much which really supports it. Put it this way, I can't definitively say that it's  not a thing but I don't feel there is much to support it.

Also, it would be kind of random for Escobar to suddenly get really good at that in his 30s after a period of being a low BABIP guy.

See Torii Hunter for an example of a guy that changed his swing to improve his BABIP at the expensive of trying to pull the ball for home runs. His last season with the Angels he definitely hit against the shifts and to right field for base hits. That wasn't part of his skill set leading up to that season.

[SigBaby]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

No, he does not have superior range and if he does then he should try showing it.  When Escobar is given the starting job it will come down to the Angels valuing his bat over Marte's glove.  Or them valuing Marte's flexibility over giving him the starting gig.  SS and catcher are the most difficult positions hands down. 

In my opinion, Escobar's ability and range isn't the issue. He actually made some fantastic plays last year so he has the ability, but it's his lack of focus on fundamentals that leads to stupid errors. 

[Docwaukee]

On 12/13/2016 at 0:01 PM, Oz27 said:

I'm not sure I buy that theory to be honest. I've read plenty of research which casts doubt on that being something players have much control over and not much which really supports it. Put it this way, I can't definitively say that it's  not a thing but I don't feel there is much to support it.

Also, it would be kind of random for Escobar to suddenly get really good at that in his 30s after a period of being a low BABIP guy.

I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters.

I think it's certainly a skill that can be developed.  We would practice it all the time.  It's not different than hitting the ball back up the middle.  You practice something enough and you can get better at it.  Watch a pro golfer practice.  They hit the same shot over and over and over.  I saw tiger woods at a course one time and he was hitting balls out of the sand from a specific spot.  I played an entire round and he was in the same spot hitting the same shot when I finished.  Asked one of the guys in the clubhouse because I couldn't believe it but they said he never moved from that spot.  

A baseball moves so it's clearly a little tougher which is why 3/10 times is pretty damn good.  

The other thing Escobar did was to give up any semblance of power he had.  He also improved his LD rate and decrease his FB rate.  

He's actually a pretty damn talented guy.  Was a GG caliber SS at one point.  Flips a switch and becomes a .300 hitter.  I think defense bores him and he loses focus.  

 

[tomsred]

Wasn't a lot of Escobar's errors the result of dropping down and throwing sidearm to first base?  I can see that happening in my sleep.  It might be interesting if we took away those throws, and then looked at his fielding percentage, would he be more middle of the pack?  Just seems to me if he had improved throwing mechanics he would be much better off, maybe.  If those are concentration errors he's not going to be easy to change.  The guy does seem like a space cadet at times.  

I agree with ettin that he was brought here for a very specific reason, to get on base in front of Trout and Pujols.  He's the best the team has at the moment for that aspect of the game.  At some point we obviously need to find a talent that is more multi-dimensional.  I'm still hopeful for Cowart, but his bat does scare me some.

[VariousCrap]

I personally think, if Marte has a killer spring and Escobar doesn't, Marte may be the starting 3B in 2017.

[SigBaby]

I know it's not hard to be better defensively than Escobar at third, but why do people think Marte will be a substantial upgrade? The dude just looks uncoordinated in the field from what I've seen. I think Marte is a great depth piece for this team to have and a weapon off the bench, but I think if he replaces anyone in the lineup it should be Cron given that he can basically give us a similar skill set and Cron would net us more in a trade than Escobar.