Lesson Learned?

[Second Base]

It's actually quite interesting, the route Pujols has taken. Most great ones will maintain a respectable BA/OBP while the power steadily decreases. Torii was pretty smart in adjusting his game that way.

Albert has transitioned into an all or nothing hitter. I think he could hit .280/.350 if he wanted, while only hitting 20 HR's. But instead we have .250/.300 and 40 HR's. And I think that'll almost assuredly come to a head here in a year or two where he'll hit .230/.270 and 25 HR's. I think that's the point where we'll see him step away. I think that's still 3-4 years away though.

[Angel Oracle]

Prediction: retirement after the 2019 season (2 years left on contract)

He will be turning 40 in 2020.

Prediction part 2: the Halos and Pujols will negotiate a partial settlement for say half of the remaining $64 million after 2019. Maybe paying out $3.2 million/year over 10 years?

Edited December 19, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[tdawg87]

I don't think you can do that. Or at least, the MLBPA wouldn't allow it. I could be wrong though.

[Hollyw00d]

I kinda hope pujols doesn't retire

It would bail arte out and Albert is entitled to the entire contract if he wants it

And its not my money.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Hollyw00d

[Ohtaniland]

Maybe Arte can convince Albert to start his 10 year service portion of his contract now and return all healed up in 2026 to finish his playing career. It would be great to see a healthy Albert in the lineup when he returns.

[stormngt]

I am not confused and I like the addition of Simmons, but what is the plan? You don't trade your two best minor league arms, one of which is a top 20 prospect, if you are then going to turn around and stop acquiring the pieces you need to get the job done. If you are afraid of the luxury tax then why trade for a 34 year old 3rd baseman that makes $7 million, when you actually have at least passable defensive third baseman that costs the league minimum and he also puts together good at bats. If you are afraid of going over the tax then why trade a 24 year old arm. Once again, I like both of the trades and both of the guys we got, if it leads to us going for it. But if Arte isn't bluffing, and he is done spending enough to get an everyday left fielder then those moves are a waste of the only resources we have/had, which is money and arms. It's about the plan and the direction TD, this isn't a real hard concept to understand. The players I like, the trades I don't mind, but if we are planning on going into this season with Gio at 2nd and NavaGentry in LF, thenI don't really like it at all and they should have just kept thier cheap pitchers for later. Now, I will actually like the construction of the team if they trade CJ or Santiago for a left fielder that fits into the budget and gets on base. Someone like a Brett Gardner type.

Dead on post! There has to be a game plan. It looked like the plan was to improve defense and sign free agents to compete the next four years.

Then Arte changed his mind. Now we are going cheap after Kim signs with Baltimore after we traded our pitching assets and after we traded one of our best relievers.

[Second Base]

Personally, there's none of it I particularly like. The Simmons trade was idiocy but that's a dead-horse. The Escobar acquisition makes a heck of a lot more sense as a 2B if they won't exceed the tax because that precludes them from Kendrick/Murphy. There's no reason to keep Giavotella at 2B when Cowart/Kubitza at 3B are both better options, which slides Escobar to 2B.

The Nava move doesn't make any sense. A major league deal for a player that should've got a minor league pact. I mean if we wanted a cheap platoon OF, why not just hang onto Murphy? Maybe they plan on platooning Calhoun with Nava, since Kole couldn't touch a LHP last year.

On the pitching side of things, why create a laughably shallow bullpen? Luxury tax or not, that just sucks.

There just isn't anything here that makes sense. He goes for run prevention with Simmons, Soto, and Pennington, yet fields the worst defensive 2B in baseball. He tries to create a younger, more controllable team, but then brings in Gentry and Nava for LF. He talks about maintaining the pitching depth, yet depletes an already shallow pen.

So far, I'm wondering if Eppler has any idea what he's doing. It certainly doesn't look like it right now on December 20th.

[tdawg87]

I think Eppler knows what he is doing. I just have a feeling that the plans changed midway through because of Arte. Didn't Eppler say a few times that he was having discussions with Upton, Cespedes, and Gordon? Didn't he say something to that effect just hours before Arte shit all over the offseason?

[Second Base]

I can't pretend to know the relationship between owner and GM, I think they're all different.  But I do know that plans change all the time.  But to go from constructing this team with the idea of spending a certain amount and changing his mind after the moves were made to not spend anymore money, I don't think that happens.  

 

If it did, it'd be enough that I wouldn't want that job anymore.  It's sort of like being hired for a job that pays you 200k more per year than you currently make.  As a result, you go and buy a nice new car, maybe remodel your house and buy the wife a nice piece of jewelry.  Then your boss decides to cut your pay lower than it was in the first place.  You'd be screwed. 

 

I just don't think Arte would willingly screw his new GM like that. 

 

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a combination of two things. 

 

1. Eppler can somehow justify this roster construction at a level that neither you and I understand right now.

2. Eppler and Moreno agreed that Upton/Gordon/Cespedes are worth a certain amount of money.  So far, their asking price is nowhere near the level the team believes they're worth, and thus the team has made tentative plans to go into next season without them.  However, should their asking price drop into the range that the Angls deem fair, they'll make that move. 

[Ohtaniland]

I can't pretend to know the relationship between owner and GM, I think they're all different. But I do know that plans change all the time. But to go from constructing this team with the idea of spending a certain amount and changing his mind after the moves were made to not spend anymore money, I don't think that happens.

If it did, it'd be enough that I wouldn't want that job anymore. It's sort of like being hired for a job that pays you 200k more per year than you currently make. As a result, you go and buy a nice new car, maybe remodel your house and buy the wife a nice piece of jewelry. Then your boss decides to cut your pay lower than it was in the first place. You'd be screwed.

I just don't think Arte would willingly screw his new GM like that.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a combination of two things.

1. Eppler can somehow justify this roster construction at a level that neither you and I understand right now.

2. Eppler and Moreno agreed that Upton/Gordon/Cespedes are worth a certain amount of money. So far, their asking price is nowhere near the level the team believes they're worth, and thus the team has made tentative plans to go into next season without them. However, should their asking price drop into the range that the Angls deem fair, they'll make that move.

Or maybe Eppler convinced Arte that he should not waste more money for another pretty paint job on the same car until he's had a chance to rebuild the engine. Edited December 21, 2015 by CALZONE

[TroutField]

I don't get how there isn't any interest at all in Santiago, there are plenty of teams with pitching needs and that would be an ideal way to get our outfielder. Since Arte seemed to back off the spending money part of the plan halfway through.

[tomsred]

I can't pretend to know the relationship between owner and GM, I think they're all different.  But I do know that plans change all the time.  But to go from constructing this team with the idea of spending a certain amount and changing his mind after the moves were made to not spend anymore money, I don't think that happens.  

 

If it did, it'd be enough that I wouldn't want that job anymore.  It's sort of like being hired for a job that pays you 200k more per year than you currently make.  As a result, you go and buy a nice new car, maybe remodel your house and buy the wife a nice piece of jewelry.  Then your boss decides to cut your pay lower than it was in the first place.  You'd be screwed. 

 

I just don't think Arte would willingly screw his new GM like that. 

 

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a combination of two things. 

 

1. Eppler can somehow justify this roster construction at a level that neither you and I understand right now.

2. Eppler and Moreno agreed that Upton/Gordon/Cespedes are worth a certain amount of money.  So far, their asking price is nowhere near the level the team believes they're worth, and thus the team has made tentative plans to go into next season without them.  However, should their asking price drop into the range that the Angls deem fair, they'll make that move. 

 

Or maybe Arte's goal is never to rebuild, like the Yankees, and told Eppler to contend now to the best of his ability, but only to the level that made him feel comfortable with the financial obligations.  I saw an MLB interview with Brain Cashman about 10 days ago during the Winter Meetings.  That's exactly what his plan is, making improvements as they come along without increasing the AAV player salaries in the organization.  They expect to work themselves down back down under the tax as quickly as possible, and to contend while doing so.  He stated that his ownership would never consider full rebuild.  That would never be done in New York.  

Edited December 21, 2015 by tomsred

[T.G.]

I can't pretend to know the relationship between owner and GM, I think they're all different. But I do know that plans change all the time.

1. Eppler can somehow justify this roster construction at a level that neither you and I understand right now.

2. Eppler and Moreno agreed that Upton/Gordon/Cespedes are worth a certain amount of money. So far, their asking price is nowhere near the level the team believes they're worth, and thus the team has made tentative plans to go into next season without them. However, should their asking price drop into the range that the Angls deem fair, they'll make that move.

I actually agree with this and think this is a very reasonable conclusion. None of us really know what is going on behind the scenes - but we can hope for the best if we so choose. Edited December 21, 2015 by True Grich

[eligrba]

I have a hard believing that these types of discussions are only occurring between Eppler and Moreno.  The player movement so far has Scioscia's fingerprints all over it.

[Mark68]

You do know that Escobar was acquired to play THIRD base, right?

[AngelsLakersFan]

Or maybe Arte's goal is never to rebuild, like the Yankees, and told Eppler to contend now to the best of his ability, but only to the level that made him feel comfortable with the financial obligations.  I saw an MLB interview with Brain Cashman about 10 days ago during the Winter Meetings.  That's exactly what his plan is, making improvements as they come along without increasing the AAV player salaries in the organization.  They expect to work themselves down back down under the tax as quickly as possible, and to contend while doing so.  He stated that his ownership would never consider full rebuild.  That would never be done in New York.  

 

I'm not sure if even the Yankees can make that work. That said, finishing around 88 wins per year is a pretty competitive strategy in the current climate.

[Angel Oracle]

Just doesn't make sense to go with Street, Smith, and then a bunch of guys truly no better than a #5/#6 guy in the normal MLB bullpen.

[Troll Daddy]

What doesn't make sense is trying to speculate what might or might not happen.

This is why we have a great forum so we can.

MC

[tdawg87]

What doesn't make sense is trying to speculate what might or might not happen.

This is why we have a great forum so we can.

MC

 

[halosfan1970]

You do know that Escobar was acquired to play THIRD base, right?

 

Any speculation that Escobar could play SECOND is strictly forbidden. He was acquired to play THIRD! THIRD! THIRD!

 

All of us have been informed of this. Further, we have been warned regarding this inappropriate speculation multiple times now.

 

SHAME!

[Mark68]

Any speculation that Escobar could play SECOND is strictly forbidden. He was acquired to play THIRD! THIRD! THIRD!

 

All of us have been informed of this. Further, we have been warned regarding this inappropriate speculation multiple times now.

 

SHAME!

Well, being that he hasn't played second on a regular basis since 2007...

 

And yet there are a lot of assumptions about him playing second for us for some reason...with nothing to back them up, except maybe wishful thinking.

[T.G.]

Hey! Tis the season for wishful thinking!!

[Second Base]

I like the Escobar move, but it's also a little bit of a head scratcher.  First and foremost, it makes complete sense because he'll be batting leadoff and getting on base for the run producers.  We definitely needed that.  What doesn't make a whole lot of sense is his defensive profile.  He hardly ever played 3B before last year, and the Nats did NOT acquire him to play 3B.  But because of injuries, he slid over and became a permanent fixture over there.  However, he was just awful defensively speaking.  

 

Now of course, there's still hope for him.  He got better as the year progressed, he has the glove, lateral movement and arm to be a plus defender at 3B and now he'll have a quality SS playing next to him.  So maybe he'll turn into a good defensive 3B, maybe.  

 

But that also means the Angels should be willing to play him at 2B.  Both Kubitza and Cowart should be above average defenders at 3B at the major league level, with Cowart being an elite defender.  Kubitza figures to grow into a high quality major league hitter, and Cowart also possesses the upside to be something better than expected.  

 

I really struggle to see the point in keeping those two down in the minors while keeping Escobar at 3B and Giavotella at 2B.  Johnnny's a decent hitter, not good or even great but decent.  But his defense as a 2B ranked dead last in the majors.  If it were me, Kubitza or Cowart would be at 3B and Escobar at 2B, but as I understand, the Angels are going to do the opposite.  This would get to me at first, but as I've learned now, Billy Eppler will almost always do the exact opposite as me.  I hope I am humbled and Billy shows his genius.  

 

So far, his plan looks disorganized and ill-conceived.  But I'll wait.  There's gotta be some surprise coming.  Like for some weird reason I'm not seeing, the Angels are now a great team.  Or maybe they'll bring in a big time LF on a much more team friendly contract because he waited out the market. 

[Troll Daddy]

" opposite. This would get to me at first, but as I've learned now, Billy Eppler will almost always do the exact opposite as me. I hope I am humbled and Billy shows his genius. "

Pathetic ... at best. Lol Is there a "I told you so" in the future. We'll keep our fingers crossed for you.

Cowart is a elite defender and Simmons is a defensive specialist. I don't follow?

[Angel Oracle]

Gio's 2B range/arm seemed to be almost non-existent.     Eckstein had Ozzie Smith range/arm at SS next to Gio's 2B range.