Utah judge removes lesbian couple's foster child, saying she'll be better off with heterosexuals

[juansavage1]

plenty of things lead to war and death.  Bad things have been done in the name of plenty of things.

 

Of course I don't like bad things being done in my religion, I speak out against it when it happens.  You've seen it.

Not true. In the West the wars directly related to religion are only a fraction of the violence. The only ones I can really think of at the moment was the 30-Years war and some other Reformation skirmishes and maybe the Crusades in the South of France, and even those were dubiously religious as France helped the Protestants during the 30-Years war. 

 

Most of the wars are fought over territory. Except:

 

Anti-religion- French Revolution, the Communist, and fascist wars- has led to over a hundred million deaths in the West alone. If we count all of the world, it's much more. 

 

Again, just pointing out facts. 

[Glen]

I'd say the majority of people really against (most people either don't care or don't like to be called names) traditional marriage are either atheists or hostile towards religion (I really do think this, but I never use it as an argument).

And, yes. times change. I'd like a future where marriage is restored to its natural, logical definition and that most kids get to experience life with their parents. I think that can happen in several states rather quickly if one of the next SC justices isn't as sappy as Kennedy.

Who has ever come out against traditional marriage, as in saying traditional marriage should be outlawed?

[Adam]

prolly this dude

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/28/silvio-berlusconi-to-pay-_n_2376968.html

[nate]

Juan has never heard of the crusades or the Spanish Inquisition I guess...

[mtangelsfan]

I hate when a decent thread gets "juan'd"

[juansavage1]

Who has ever come out against traditional marriage, as in saying traditional marriage should be outlawed?

Many people have, actually. There are different levels to it. The intellectual elites like the prominent feminist below ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen ) 

come up with these ideas. I don't think you guys believe this. I think most people who support these measures think they're being sensitive and "just." 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/why-get-married/4058506

 

 

 

“It’s a no-brainer that (homosexual activists) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist. …(F)ighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. 

The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in mind when I came out thirty years ago. 

I have three kids who have five parents, more or less, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t have five parents legally… I met my new partner, and she had just had a baby, and that baby’s biological father is my brother, and my daughter’s biological father is a man who lives in Russia, and my adopted son also considers him his father. So the five parents break down into two groups of three… And really, I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of reflecting that reality, and I don’t think that’s compatible with the institution of marriage.”

 

 

[juansavage1]

I hate when a decent thread gets "juan'd"

You wish everything could stay dick jokes and "why does anybody care...it's so obvious...)

 

I'll leave again and see what you geniuses come up with. 

Edited November 18, 2015 by Juan Savage

[juansavage1]

Juan has never heard of the crusades or the Spanish Inquisition I guess...

Yes, I have. Without getting into detail, as wars the four Crusades were pretty mild. The Spanish Inquisition was religious, but it's first purpose was to expose people likely to be traitors to the monarchy. 

[Hollyw00d]

I hate when a decent thread gets "juan'd"

Yep its very difficult to have a conversations with someone takes his own generalizations and wild fantasies as absolute fact and has the mindset of a white dude in 1950s texas

[mtangelsfan]

You wish everything could stay dick jokes and "why does anybody care...it's so obvious...)

 

I'll leave again and see what you geniuses come up with. 

 

Hey now, dick jokes have been the back bone of AW since its inception.

 

 

pun intended.

[juansavage1]

Yep its very difficult to have a conversations with someone takes his own generalizations and wild fantasies as absolute fact and has the mindset of a white dude in 1950s texas

Which wild fantasy is that?

Every comment has come with an example.

I decided not to respond to nonsense If you want to discuss the ideas or, better yet, give counter examples with evidence, then I'll respond. A couple of you tried to do that.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Juan Savage

[Angelsjunky]

It also leads to millions of folks helping other folks.

 

 

One of the bigger problems I have with religion is that a static belief system with a supreme being leads to conflict and superiority complexes.

 

Enough already happens in clashing cultures, religion just adds another layer to it.

 

Sorry I quoted this in reverse order, but here's my addition: Both are true, in my opinion. Religion has lead millions of folks to helping other folks, but it has also created further division among people and instigated clashes and, in some cases, violence.

 

I don't think it is fair to either complete castigate religion (like my buddy Bill Maher, who I generally agree with on most things but feel is a bit too black-and-white on religion), or to be a true believer and naive about the downsides of religion, especially the extremist/fundamentalist variants.

 

To be fair according to the chart the divorce rate went from 1% to 2%

 

I really don't think it has to do with SSM.

 

More likely it has to do with the Women's liberation movement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_liberation_movement

 

Because a bunch of women realized they didn't have to stay in shitty marriages with assholes.

 

Damn that women's lib.

 

Hey now, dick jokes have been the back bone of AW since its inception.

 

 

pun intended.

 

mtangelsfan said "bone."

 

Huh-huh-huh.

 

[juansavage1]

Sorry I quoted this in reverse order, but here's my addition: Both are true, in my opinion. Religion has lead millions of folks to helping other folks, but it has also created further division among people and instigated clashes and, in some cases, violence.

I don't think it is fair to either complete castigate religion (like my buddy Bill Maher, who I generally agree with on most things but feel is a bit too black-and-white on religion), or to be a true believer and naive about the downsides of religion, especially the extremist/fundamentalist variants.

Because a bunch of women realized they didn't have to stay in shitty marriages with assholes.

Damn that women's lib.

mtangelsfan said "bone."

Huh-huh-huh.

If you notice, people will divide themselves by what they think is important. Some of the most popular are: race, nationaity, income, sports, looks, school, politics, philosophy, and job. The lesson is that people separate themselves and they fight over things.

The advantage of good religion is that we know we shouldn't fight and that we are all essentially equal despite the differences above. If you agree with that sentiment, you can thank a specific religious tradition.

[Blarg]

Any new updates smearing the Judges ruling without any court documents?

[Angelsjunky]

If you notice, people will divide themselves by what they think is important. Some of the most popular are: race, nationaity, income, sports, looks, school, politics, philosophy, and job. The lesson is that people separate themselves and they fight over things.

The advantage of good religion is that we know we shouldn't fight and that we are all essentially equal despite the differences above. If you agree with that sentiment, you can thank a specific religious tradition.

 

Buddhism?

[juansavage1]

Sorry I quoted this in reverse order, but here's my addition: Both are true, in my opinion. Religion has lead millions of folks to helping other folks, but it has also created further division among people and instigated clashes and, in some cases, violence.

I don't think it is fair to either complete castigate religion (like my buddy Bill Maher, who I generally agree with on most things but feel is a bit too black-and-white on religion), or to be a true believer and naive about the downsides of religion, especially the extremist/fundamentalist variants.

Because a bunch of women realized they didn't have to stay in shitty marriages with assholes.

Damn that women's lib.

mtangelsfan said "bone."

Huh-huh-huh.

One la as the thing. This is an example of how thoroughly effective TV is at forming opinion. Look at the graph of divorce I put up. First, what percentage of divorce is initialized by women? A little more than half. OK:

1. Do men initiate divorce because the women are assholes?

2. What percentage of your divorced male friends are abusive assholes?

3. In cultures that divorce a lot, like Hollywood, are people just bigger assholes?

Actually, the third one might be true.

[Crampknees]

 In cultures that divorce a lot, like Hollywood

 

Juan's war on anything they call lib has just dropped the H-bomb. 

[nate]

Buddhism?

 

Such a godless religion has no place in this world!  Theravada Buddhism has a great message.

[juansavage1]

Buddhism?

I don't know. I'll have to think about it, do some research. 

[Glen]

In cultures that divorce a lot, like Hollywood

Juan's war on anything they call lib has just dropped the H-bomb.

Stupid Hollywood culture.

[juansavage1]

Remember that I'm not talking about you guys who are downstream from the origin of these ideas. I know because I like philosophy and the history of ideas. 

 

People on the left tend to have negative feelings towards HETEROSEXUAL marriage as an institution.** You can see that in this thread and a previous one where I said that one positive aspect of the fifties was that families stayed together more. Why? Three reasons:

 

1. Families are a source of inequality. Kids from good/stable families have an advantage.

2. Families are a rival to the government, with its own loyalties. 

3. Within marriage, there are "power" issues. This is the preoccupation of leftists. 

 

**If you ask the average TV viewer if gay marriages are happier than straight marriages, my guess is that he'd say that they are. This is similar to how people think 20-something % of people are gay even though they're only 2-3% of the population. If the left feels that gay marriage is safe, they'll ignore it. It was mostly about pushing an agenda. 

 

Remember, I'm not saying that YOU think explicitly think this way. I'm saying that you're influenced by people who do. 

 

If you don't believe me, google something like "power structure marriage feminism"

Edited November 19, 2015 by Juan Savage

[juansavage1]

Here you go: 

 

http://www.bing.com/search?FORM=U280DF&PC=U280&q=power+structure+marriage+feminism

[Glen]

**** Bing.

[Angelsjunky]

Juan, I don't think anyone hates heterosexual marriage. It may be, though, that some aren't as attached to it as the bedrock of our civilization, that marriage should reflect the changing times, which are more inclusive of gays.

 

In my opinion, you are unable to present a reasonable case against gay marriage, or why adhering to "traditional values" Is more important than equal rights.

[Glen]

I think it's mostly not people against traditional marriage and for other forms of marriage, it's people against the entire institution of marriage, or having marriage as the exclusive domain of straight couples.