congrats millennials

[Gavin]

Where did you read that?  Or is that your own observation?

 

Clearly the blame for the erosion of the educational system falls on the previous generation.

Not from this article, but even the title of this thread can be construed as the Millennials are the problem.  

 

I am a Millennial.  I graduated from college in one of the worst job markets in US history.  I get tired of hearing that we are lazy, need our hands held for everything, or we are the issue with why this country is struggling.

 

College tuition is absolutely ridiculous now (there's a bubble coming with all of the college debt that's being accrued), and I'm just as guilty in this with my current loans for grad school.  Also large corporations work for shareholders, and stock prices for that matter.  I can't tell you how many of my friends out of college only got temporary jobs who were over qualified for many of the positions they were taking. 

 

With college prices exploding and more graduates noticing a diminishing return on their "investment", it's no wonder skills are eroding.  Is it really worth going $40,000 in debt for a degree these days?  And that's only for a cheaper public school.  USC's tuition is pushing $50,000 a year; that's JUST the tuition.  Then grad school gets even worse where med students are 200-300k in debt when they graduate.

 

In short, the system is broken.  The system that was established by older generations.  Yet, it's "congrats millennials" or "boomers gave us too much for anyone to be capable of tying his or her own shoes".  

[Lou]

Not from this article, but even the title of this thread can be construed as the Millennials are the problem.  

 

I am a Millennial.  I graduated from college in one of the worst job markets in US history.  I get tired of hearing that we are lazy, need our hands held for everything, or we are the issue with why this country is struggling.

 

College tuition is absolutely ridiculous now (there's a bubble coming with all of the college debt that's being accrued), and I'm just as guilty in this with my current loans for grad school.  Also large corporations work for shareholders, and stock prices for that matter.  I can't tell you how many of my friends out of college only got temporary jobs who were over qualified for many of the positions they were taking. 

 

With college prices exploding and more graduates noticing a diminishing return on their "investment", it's no wonder skills are eroding.  Is it really worth going $40,000 in debt for a degree these days?  And that's only for a cheaper public school.  USC's tuition is pushing $50,000 a year; that's JUST the tuition.  Then grad school gets even worse where med students are 200-300k in debt when they graduate.

 

In short, the system is broken.  The system that was established by older generations.  Yet, it's "congrats millennials" or "boomers gave us too much for anyone to be capable of tying his or her own shoes".

Thanks for nothing

[Jay]

Yet, it's "congrats millennials" or "boomers gave us too much for anyone to be capable of tying his or her own shoes".  

 

Well it is true that recent generations are more coddled than previous.  But again that's not their fault, it's their parents' fault.

 

With respect to the broken system, it will continue to erode if nothing is done.  So either the millennials do something or they will be at fault for the continued erosion.  That's the point of the story.

 

I think the standards are becoming lower and lower because for some reason as a society we believe everyone should have a college education and not everyone is suited for college.  As demand for college education increases, the cost increases.  If the demand for college education decreases you will see a decrease in the cost.

 

There is real money to be made in the trades and those jobs cannot be outsourced to India.

[Gavin]

Well it is true that recent generations are more coddled than previous.  But again that's not their fault, it's their parents' fault.

 

With respect to the broken system, it will continue to erode if nothing is done.  So either the millennials do something or they will be at fault for the continued erosion.  That's the point of the story.

 

I think the standards are becoming lower and lower because for some reason as a society we believe everyone should have a college education and not everyone is suited for college.  As demand for college education increases, the cost increases.  If the demand for college education decreases you will see a decrease in the cost.

 

There is real money to be made in the trades and those jobs cannot be outsourced to India.

Serious question: would you tell your kids, "You don't need to go to college; there's money to be made as a plumber or a mechanic."?  

 

I agree our society believes that college is borderline a necessity.  I think that has to do with a bigger middle class, though.  The boomers' parents developed this country.  Many transitioned from a lower class (simply put poorer) to a more well off middle class.  I don't study history much or sizes of each class, for that matter, but as a society evolves so will what is considered important to said society.  

[cez]

It gets harder every year to teach kids reading and writing skills, I've found.  

 

Asking them to write in complete sentences induces more and more blank/vapid stares.  

 

Me:  "All you have to do is make sure your sentence has a subject and verb"

Them: "What are these things you speak of?"

Me: "Well, a subject is a type of noun.  It 's the noun in a sentence that is connected directly to the verb."

Them:"Uhhhhhhhhhh...."

45 minutes pass where I go over what nouns are, and what verbs are. 

Me: "So, a complete sentence has to have a subject and a verb."

Them: "That's not how I text, though.  And nobody talks like that."  

Me: "Excuse me while I curl up in the fetal position up here. Continue consuming oxygen silently until the bell rings."

 

You figure out where I was using hyperbole.  It's less than you might think. 

[cez]

Gavin is making a lot of very good points, by the way. 

[Gavin]

I know my rant is a bit off topic considering the article doesn't place blame on the Millennials.  From my experience, placing blame on the Mills. is, unfortunately, usually the case.  I've had to work my ass off, and I know many people my age who get so discouraged that they take terrible jobs considering their skills and potential.

 

One other point, it is nearly impossible to transition industries as well, something that was almost a given in previous generations.  One of the few ways to do so is to go back to school, which then goes back to my previous point about tuition costs.  And the vicious circle continues.  I worked in personal finance for three years.  I tried to transition into consulting/M&A and didn't even get the time of day.  It's one of the main reasons why I'm back in school.

[Jay]

Serious question: would you tell your kids, "You don't need to go to college; there's money to be made as a plumber or a mechanic."?  

 

I agree our society believes that college is borderline a necessity.  I think that has to do with a bigger middle class, though.  The boomers' parents developed this country.  Many transitioned from a lower class (simply put poorer) to a more well off middle class.  I don't study history much or sizes of each class, for that matter, but as a society evolves so will what is considered important to said society.  

 

I would always encourage children to pursue an education.

 

But the standards should be raised so that college admittance is reserved for those students who are academically suited.  Those who are not suited for college should pursue trade school.

[Jay]

It gets harder every year to teach kids reading and writing skills, I've found.  

 

Asking them to write in complete sentences induces more and more blank/vapid stares.  

 

Me:  "All you have to do is make sure your sentence has a subject and verb"

Them: "What are these things you speak of?"

Me: "Well, a subject is a type of noun.  It 's the noun in a sentence that is connected directly to the verb."

Them:"Uhhhhhhhhhh...."

45 minutes pass where I go over what nouns are, and what verbs are. 

Me: "So, a complete sentence has to have a subject and a verb."

Them: "That's not how I text, though.  And nobody talks like that."  

Me: "Excuse me while I curl up in the fetal position up here. Continue consuming oxygen silently until the bell rings."

 

You figure out where I was using hyperbole.  It's less than you might think. 

 

And you're teaching high school kids right?  They should already know how to write a complete sentence.  Normally you are taught grammar in what, 4th grade?

[cez]

And you're teaching high school kids right?  They should already know how to write a complete sentence.  Normally you are taught grammar in what, 4th grade?

Nobody teachers grammar anymore.  

 

I'm not a fan of making kids diagram sentences or anything, but most of them don't even know what nouns are.

[Jay]

Nobody teachers grammar anymore.  

 

I didn't know that.  Disappointing.  And they say the #1 skill you need to succeed in the workplace is communication.

[Amazing Larry]

As demand for college education increases, the cost increases. 

 

I don't believe this is the reason why college tuition has skyrocketed.

[cez]

i understand it, actually.  i mean, look at me.  i make a lot of errors when typing on social media like AW because i just don't care and am usually in a hurry.  just noticed that I said "nobody teachers grammar anymore" among other things.   

 

i actually understand that when it matters, i need to use good writing skills, though.  i can turn it on and off.

 

20 years ago, the only time kids really wrote outside of school was the occasional letter to get something they needed.  The good writing skill always had to be on to be successful.  

 

Now, they're writing all the time with their phones or though social media, and since it rarely revolves around articulating clear arguments, they just practice terrible writing over and over and over again.  it's just about impossible to overcome as a teacher, but i try my best.  

[Hollyw00d]

Imo, most baby boomers sucked at parenting (no offense to you blue hairs out there)

We have a generation now with little direction and skills because many baby boomer parents weren't around due to being workaholics or provided little guidance because they wanted their kids to "just figure it out" like they did.

Many kids grew up sitting in front of the tv for hours after school, alone or with their siblings, because no one was around to show them any diffrrent. Also, boomers are the biggest offenders in "helicopter parenting" which is just as harmful as not being around, imo.

[Jay]

I suppose you can get by without formal grammar lessons if you read books.

[Tank]

Millennials taught by baby boomers.  I always find it interesting how the older generations almost exclusively place blame on the younger generations for eroding skills, education, etc.  

 

valid point. i think we've all seen a tremendous amount of lazy parenting over the last twenty years. kids aren't as creative because their parents want to do so much of everything for them. it's like every parent has become a little league parent. back off and let the kids figure out some thing for themselves. 

[mp170.6]

I'm sorry if this offends anybody, it's just how I see things in the public school system:

 

ENGLISH:  Too much time wasted reading and writing poetry and fiction.  Nowhere near enough time devoted to the real world.  Why read Shakespeare when kids can't read well enough after graduation to fill out job applications, apply for financial aid, or even comprehend the news?

 

MATH:  Blow it up and start from scratch.  The idea that adults need to do the quadratic equation or algebraic factoring by hand, (or do much of anything by hand) is an antiquated notion.  Geometric proofs suck at teaching kids logic.  Personal finance should be incorporated into the required math curriculum. 

 

SCIENCE:  Easier entry to science classes even if you suck at math.  Sometimes science (i.e. physics) helps people to understand math better.  Most kids avoid these classes due to their remedial math skills.

 

HISTORY:  Teach more at the high school level, less in K-6.  A lot of history is too complex for younger children.

 

ART, MUSIC, THEATRE:  Discontinue about 50% of the classes.  They are a crutch to kids who suck in other classes -- it's a great way to pad a GPA and dismiss the reality of being a poor student. 

 

HONORS/AP/IB CLASSES:  Scrap all of them.  Gifted students don't need extra attention.  Giving them preferential treatment makes them arrogant and less inclined to learn new things. 

[Tank]

cause and effect: fewer art/music/theater classes, poorer ability to be creative and to problem solve.

 

i think we need of these classes. kids have tactile needs, and art is definitely one class that can address that. i'd also like to see photography offered as a requirement. 

[Amazing Larry]

MATH:  Blow it up and start from scratch.  The idea that adults need to do the quadratic equation or algebraic factoring by hand, (or do much of anything by hand) is an antiquated notion.  Geometric proofs suck at teaching kids logic.  Personal finance should be incorporated into the required math curriculum. 

 

Agreed. Especially the part about personal finance. This credit card generation are creating financial slaves of themselves.

[Amazing Larry]

cause and effect: fewer art/music/theater classes, poorer ability to be creative and to problem solve.

 

i think we need of these classes. kids have tactile needs, and art is definitely one class that can address that. i'd also like to see photography offered as a requirement. 

 

Photography as a requirement? Why?

[cez]

I'm sorry if this offends anybody, it's just how I see things in the public school system:

 

ENGLISH:  Too much time wasted reading and writing poetry and fiction.  Nowhere near enough time devoted to the real world.  Why read Shakespeare when kids can't read well enough after graduation to fill out job applications, apply for financial aid, or even comprehend the news?

 

 

 

Being able to make coherent arguments about any writer's intent, and back them up with text evidence is a valuable skill.  

 

It's less about the type of literature, and more about the ability to use rhetoric effectively.  Analysis of all types of text (poetry, prose fiction, prose non-fiction, plays, etc) is helpful for learning this skill.  

 

I agree that some teachers aren't knowledgeable enough about poetry or the works of Shakespeare to incorporate them successfully into student learning.  That's a separate argument, though.  I'd love it if it were a lot harder to become a teacher. 

[Tank]

Photography as a requirement? Why?

 

helps develop creativity and a critical eye. 

[mp170.6]

Being able to make coherent arguments about any writer's intent, and back them up with text evidence is a valuable skill.  

 

It's less about the type of literature, and more about the ability to use rhetoric effectively.  Analysis of all types of text (poetry, prose fiction, prose non-fiction, plays, etc) is helpful for learning this skill.  

 

I agree that some teachers aren't knowledgeable enough about poetry or the works of Shakespeare to incorporate them successfully into student learning.  That's a separate argument, though.  I'd love it if it were a lot harder to become a teacher. 

 

I guess what's concerning is when an 18-year old, fresh out of high school, lacks the vocabulary to fill out a job application. 

 

My neighbor's kid was supposedly pretty smart and got good grades.  I happened to be over there when he was doing an application on the computer.  On the part asking about criminal history, he didn't know the meanings of Infraction, Misdemeanor, Felony, Probation, Nolo Contendere, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember right now.  They didn't teach this stuff in my high school either. 

 

There's just no hope for this country if after 18 years of being a kid and preparing them for adulthood, we don't provide them with the most essential knowledge to function in life.

[JAHV76]

Photography is good to ensure they have a career path to TMZ.

Edited March 6, 2015 by JAHV76

[cez]

every single culture in the world with better literacy and achievement rates across the board invests far more in the arts per capita than the US.  

 

it's pathetic to me that people freak out so much about the meager budget of the NEA when we know that there is a direct correlation between the arts and academic success.