Bo Porter (HOU Manager) on Closers

[YouthofToday]

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/astros/article/Astros-last-call-is-anybody-s-guess-come-closing-5349140.php

Astros future looks very bright with Porter at the helm. Money quote:

“You know what your role is? When your phone rings and your name’s called, go get people out,” Porter said. “That’s your role. That’s why you’re in the bullpen.”

[TobiasFunke]

Pitchers get paid to pitch, plain and simple

[tdawg87]

I agree with him. I don't like reliever roles. I think you can be just as successful playing to the numbers as you can bringing in one guy every night regardless.

Can't tell you how many games the Angels have lost over the years by bringing in the "closer" or "setup man" to get outs in a crucial situation only to see it blow up in their face because that particular pitcher struggles against the opposing lineup. See Frieri vs. Texas and Shields vs. Boston.

That's not a knock on those pitchers. Everyone has a team or hitter they just can't get out. The implementation of roles in the bullpen makes you live or die by one or two pitchers. Not Scioscia's fault either, it's just how the game is now.

[Docwaukee]

While i don't totally disagree Tdawg, I have heard many relievers comment that they like knowing they have a specific role and that it's much easier to pitch in those conditions.  It also keeps guys from having to warm up and possibly cool off.  

Personally, I do think it is more challenging to be a closer than any other spot in the pen as you work without a net.  If a middle reliever gives up a double and then walks a guy, gets an out or two and then the situational lefty comes in to bail him out, his numbers don't look so bad.  Closers pitch till their either save or blow the game.  It's very binary.  And you don't want to consistently leave one of your best guys waiting in the wings just in case.  

[Docwaukee]

But I agree there could be a little more flexibility.  Like going lefty lefty for the first couple of batters in the ninth and then bringing in the closer etc.  

[LightTheHalo]

Bo also thinks a reliever's role includes coming in to relieve another pitcher and then leaving the game without throwing a pitch because the other manager sends up a pinch hitter.

[Brent Maguire]

Good that some managers are catching on to this. It's ok to bring guys in similar situations/innings but if there's a time where you absolutely need your close to come in and get an our, you bring him in.

[m0nkey]

I'd rather have my best relief pitcher come in in the 8th facing 3-4-5 than save him for the 9th and have him face 7-8-9

[jshep]

I'd rather have my best relief pitcher come in in the 8th facing 3-4-5 than save him for the 9th and have him face 7-8-9

Yep, absolutely this

[Angel Oracle]

Bo also thinks a reliever's role includes coming in to relieve another pitcher and then leaving the game without throwing a pitch because the other manager sends up a pinch hitter.

Sad part is, the umpiring crew must have thought the same thing and allowed it. 

Funny thing was, Doug Eddings wasn't even on that crew.   Fieldin Culbreth was the crew chief.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130510&content_id=47146298&c_id=hou

Edited March 26, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[tdawg87]

While i don't totally disagree Tdawg, I have heard many relievers comment that they like knowing they have a specific role and that it's much easier to pitch in those conditions. It also keeps guys from having to warm up and possibly cool off.

Personally, I do think it is more challenging to be a closer than any other spot in the pen as you work without a net. If a middle reliever gives up a double and then walks a guy, gets an out or two and then the situational lefty comes in to bail him out, his numbers don't look so bad. Closers pitch till their either save or blow the game. It's very binary. And you don't want to consistently leave one of your best guys waiting in the wings just in case.

I think it may be "easier" to know your role and expectations, and I don't have a problem with there being a "go-to" guy. But that guy shouldn't always get called upon to get the final 3 outs in a close game. Sometimes, as m0nkey said, you need your best reliever in the 8th inning. And sometimes your best reliever just doesn't match up well with a certain situation, so it would be better to bring in someone else who does.

You could absolutely dominate right handed hitters, but be meh against lefties. The 3-4-5 hitters are due up in the 9th with a 1 run lead. The 3-4 hitters are both lefties, and it just so happens that the cleanup hitter is batting .400 against you. Why should you be brought in to that situation? It's only because you are the "closer" and that's your job. Not because you are the best pitcher for the situation.

This is why I hate roles in the bullpen.

[Blarg]

Sad part is, the umpiring crew must have thought the same thing and allowed it.

Funny thing was, Doug Eddings wasn't even on that crew. Fieldin Culbreth was the crew chief.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130510&content_id=47146298&c_id=hou

And they got their asses chewed out for being as stupid as Porter about the rules.

[Docwaukee]

I'd rather have my best relief pitcher come in in the 8th facing 3-4-5 than save him for the 9th and have him face 7-8-9

 

I know a lot of people say that, but there are several scenarios where I wouldn't.  

 

What if you lefty specialist comes in and isn't great against Rhers?  Then they ph for the #7 hitter with a decent Rher.  Whereas if you bring in the LHer vs. a lefty in the middle of the order you are going to get that matchup because those guys aren't pinch hit for.  It's not cut and dry and again, relievers have said they like having a role.  

[Docwaukee]

I think it may be "easier" to know your role and expectations, and I don't have a problem with there being a "go-to" guy. But that guy shouldn't always get called upon to get the final 3 outs in a close game. Sometimes, as m0nkey said, you need your best reliever in the 8th inning. And sometimes your best reliever just doesn't match up well with a certain situation, so it would be better to bring in someone else who does.

You could absolutely dominate right handed hitters, but be meh against lefties. The 3-4-5 hitters are due up in the 9th with a 1 run lead. The 3-4 hitters are both lefties, and it just so happens that the cleanup hitter is batting .400 against you. Why should you be brought in to that situation? It's only because you are the "closer" and that's your job. Not because you are the best pitcher for the situation.

This is why I hate roles in the bullpen.

actually, the situation that you mentioned is one in which we have seen MS start the 9th with the LHer and then bring in the closer.  

[GregAlso]

Relievers "roles" (knowing which inning you pitch) is only 20 or so years old. Before LaRussa you had a fireman that came in to get out of tough situations and everyone else came in when called. Better use of bullpen. Closers are only important because of the save stat and the money associated with it. Also because that's how they're taught in the minors. If they get used to a new paradigm in the minors they'll be fine in the majors.

[YouthofToday]

The human element consists mainly of relievers knowing that the number of sexy saves equals arbitration and free agency $$

[ten ocho recon scout]

^this

Im with the above quote of using your best guy for the crucial part of the game, which could be the 7th. But I agree with YOT. Saves get paid.

[ten ocho recon scout]

True. And I think thats why the hold stat is becoming more talked about. Its another stat an agent can take to a team when a RP doesnt have saves to brag about.

Its the same vice versa for hitters. Forget ops and better advanced metrics. They still dont sell (to smart poker player GM's) like rbi, runs etc. And a smart front office will use those numbers to bring what they have to pay to a guy down from what he might really be worth.

It gets even wackier from there. FA contracts are different, because the player can simply walk away. But arbitration cases can get really dirty.