A-Rod suspended for 2014 Season.

[floplag]

Again im not defending ARod at all... only that the timing is absurd.

and making an example of someone that has fallen from productivity doesnt send a message.. at least not a good one.. wanna impress me make an example out of Cabrera if he got popped for example... but we all know that aint happening

[Docwaukee]

Yes Arod cheated and yes MLB is doing A job, not it's job. What is the normal penalty? Why 211 games or whatever the exact number was? Why is it 162 games instead of 150?

 

I think a few too many people are acting a little naive. What is good for the Yankees is good for MLB. If you don't think the Yankees had some complicity (along with many, if not all, other teams) in knowledge of PED abuse in previous years (talking history now not more current timeframe) and should shoulder some responsibility for the abuse and use of PED's then I think blame is not being assigned to everyone properly.

 

MLB, the Yankees, and every MLB team has had a hand either directly or indirectly in the continuation and abuse of PED's over the years. Not following the rules set by MLB in overly prosecuting and punishing Arod even though he clearly deserves the correct punishment is hypocritical and wrong.

 

Arod deserves to be punished but in the right way and under the rules set, period. 162 games is not correct.

 

that is the problem that everyone is making with this though.  people that by punishing Arod they are casting stones at glass houses.  They aren't. 

 

No one is innocent under the previous CBA.  No one.  But they are not acting under the guidelines of that previous agreement.  The new one is essentially a new starting point for both mlb and mlbpa, but not the fans.  The slate is not clean for all of us and so it seems hypocritical yet both the mlb and mlbpa agreed to move forward without punishment for what happened in the past.  Arod violated the new CBA as did other.  Arod went beyond that and tried to cover it up and now he's being punished. 

[mancini79]

Again im not defending ARod at all... only that the timing is absurd.

and making an example of someone that has fallen from productivity doesnt send a message.. at least not a good one.. wanna impress me make an example out of Cabrera if he got popped for example... but we all know that aint happening

 

Damn right they would. Heck, they even now have precedence from the ARod debacle to do so. I'm not buying the "timing" conspiracy. MLB and MLBPA aren't only looking out for themselves, but the other players that are playing by the rules.

[ettin]

that is the problem that everyone is making with this though.  people that by punishing Arod they are casting stones at glass houses.  They aren't. 

 

No one is innocent under the previous CBA.  No one.  But they are not acting under the guidelines of that previous agreement.  The new one is essentially a new starting point for both mlb and mlbpa, but not the fans.  The slate is not clean for all of us and so it seems hypocritical yet both the mlb and mlbpa agreed to move forward without punishment for what happened in the past.  Arod violated the new CBA as did other.  Arod went beyond that and tried to cover it up and now he's being punished. 

 

First of all I don't think we are disagreeing that much. I was trying to barbeque at the same time I was writing that (thus resulting in burnt chicken btw.... the sacrifices I make for this board!).

 

The thing I do disagree with is the length of the punishment. First MLB tries to apply 212 games and then it gets moved to 162 games. I may be mistaken but no where in the CBA does it use those numbers. My limited understanding is that the numbers of 50, 100, and 150 games are used and nothing else.

 

The application of additional penalties is what bothers me the most. The fact that MLB and the Yankees pushed for 1+ years of suspension implies a collusive mindset to me. The rules should be the rules period. No artificial flavors added.

[Docwaukee]

Again im not defending ARod at all... only that the timing is absurd.

and making an example of someone that has fallen from productivity doesnt send a message.. at least not a good one.. wanna impress me make an example out of Cabrera if he got popped for example... but we all know that aint happening

they didn't make an example of him because he wasn't a productive player.  They did it because they caught him and then he spat in their face about it.  There were a bunch of other non-productive or minimally productive players that got caught as well.  They didn't get made examples of.  Arod tried to hide it, block it, and then tried to cover it up.  Then he tried to challenge them.  This is more about dick measuring then going after a guy because he costs a lot. 

[mancini79]

First of all I don't think we are disagreeing that much. I was trying to barbeque at the same time I was writing that (thus resulting in burnt chicken btw.... the sacrifices I make for this board!).

 

The thing I do disagree with is the length of the punishment. First MLB tries to apply 212 games and then it gets moved to 162 games. I may be mistaken but no where in the CBA does it use those numbers. My limited understanding is that the numbers of 50, 100, and 150 games are used and nothing else.

 

The application of additional penalties is what bothers me the most. The fact that MLB and the Yankees pushed for 1+ years of suspension implies a collusive mindset to me. The rules should be the rules period. No artificial flavors added.

 

MLB didn't move it to 162. An INDEPENDENT arbitrator looking at the rules of the CBA came down with the 162 game suspension. If AROD was guilty within the 50,100,150 rules, that is what would have been given. The INDEPENDENT arbitrator felt that ARod's case fell outside of those parameters.

[Docwaukee]

First of all I don't think we are disagreeing that much. I was trying to barbeque at the same time I was writing that (thus resulting in burnt chicken btw.... the sacrifices I make for this board!).

 

The thing I do disagree with is the length of the punishment. First MLB tries to apply 212 games and then it gets moved to 162 games. I may be mistaken but no where in the CBA does it use those numbers. My limited understanding is that the numbers of 50, 100, and 150 games are used and nothing else.

 

The application of additional penalties is what bothers me the most. The fact that MLB and the Yankees pushed for 1+ years of suspension implies a collusive mindset to me. The rules should be the rules period. No artificial flavors added.

the rules you mention relate to a positive drug test.  not obstruction of an investigation.  He is being punished those additional games for the latter.  The term of which is at the discretion of the league.  While I would agree that the 211 was probably excessive, I don't have all the facts.  An independent and non-biased arbitrator who does have all the facts made the suspension 162 games.  I have a hard time trying to dispute that part of it. 

[ettin]

MLB didn't move it to 162. An INDEPENDENT arbitrator looking at the rules of the CBA came down with the 162 game suspension. If AROD was guilty within the 50,100,150 rules, that is what would have been given. The INDEPENDENT arbitrator felt that ARod's case fell outside of those parameters.

 

First of all Mancini you don't have to all caps me?

 

Second it started at 212 and that is what MLB set it at. That was excessive and outside of the rules of the CBA.

[Stradling]

Yes Arod cheated and yes MLB is doing A job, not it's job. What is the normal penalty? Why 211 games or whatever the exact number was? Why is it 162 games instead of 150?

I think a few too many people are acting a little naive. What is good for the Yankees is good for MLB. If you don't think the Yankees had some complicity (along with many, if not all, other teams) in knowledge of PED abuse in previous years (talking history now not more current timeframe) and should shoulder some responsibility for the abuse and use of PED's then I think blame is not being assigned to everyone properly.

MLB, the Yankees, and every MLB team has had a hand either directly or indirectly in the continuation and abuse of PED's over the years. Not following the rules set by MLB in overly prosecuting and punishing Arod even though he clearly deserves the correct punishment is hypocritical and wrong.

Arod deserves to be punished but in the right way and under the rules set, period. 162 games is not correct.

Landis banned players for life.

Giamatti banned Rose for life.

Selig gave Arod 211 games after trying to get him to agree to a smaller suspension, not just for cheating but for lying and interfering with the investigation. To me the penalty fits the crime.

[ettin]

they didn't make an example of him because he wasn't a productive player.  They did it because they caught him and then he spat in their face about it.  There were a bunch of other non-productive or minimally productive players that got caught as well.  They didn't get made examples of.  Arod tried to hide it, block it, and then tried to cover it up.  Then he tried to challenge them.  This is more about dick measuring then going after a guy because he costs a lot. 

 

Again I don't necessarily disagree with a majority of what you said. But honestly the Yankess have a clear multi-million dollar interest in having the decision come down as it did. MLB, which knows the Yankees are the bread and butter of the league also have an interest in the Yankees succeeding too. The Yankees drive cash flow everywhere they go and MLB knows that. I just think that some people (not necessarily you Dochalo) are so Arod hateful that they don't want to see the other hypocrisy happening on the other side of the fence.

[Docwaukee]

First of all Mancini you don't have to all caps me?

 

Second it started at 212 and that is what MLB set it at. That was excessive and outside of the rules of the CBA.

the arbitrator ruled it was excessive but not outside the rules of the cba. 

[floplag]

Damn right they would. Heck, they even now have precedence from the ARod debacle to do so. I'm not buying the "timing" conspiracy. MLB and MLBPA aren't only looking out for themselves, but the other players that are playing by the rules.

 

i'd like to believe that.. but these are the same men that turned a blind eye for 20 years.. hard to give them credit for being upstanding human beings now

 

[ettin]

Landis banned players for life.

Giamatti banned Rose for life.

Selig gave Arod 211 games after trying to get him to agree to a smaller suspension, not just for cheating but for lying and interfering with the investigation. To me the penalty fits the crime.

 

That's fine Stradling and I even understand how you feel. But what is the point of setting rules when you aren't going to apply them correctly?

 

Frankly I despise Arod. But he should be treated under the CBA rules fairly like all others. I just think that MLB and the Yankees have a vested multi-million dollar interest in pushing this further than they responsibly should within the confines of their powers. Selig to me is a hypocrite too because he turned a blind eye to this behavior for many years.

[ettin]

the arbitrator ruled it was excessive but not outside the rules of the cba. 

 

Well if that is the case then I'm wrong.

[floplag]

they didn't make an example of him because he wasn't a productive player.  They did it because they caught him and then he spat in their face about it.  There were a bunch of other non-productive or minimally productive players that got caught as well.  They didn't get made examples of.  Arod tried to hide it, block it, and then tried to cover it up.  Then he tried to challenge them.  This is more about dick measuring then going after a guy because he costs a lot. 

 

Noone is questioning this... but i find the timings all a bit too convenient is all... you can agree or not, but i think you give them too much credit for being better people than they are... i could be wrong, but then again maybe im not, who knows

 

 

[floplag]

Again I don't necessarily disagree with a majority of what you said. But honestly the Yankess have a clear multi-million dollar interest in having the decision come down as it did. MLB, which knows the Yankees are the bread and butter of the league also have an interest in the Yankees succeeding too. The Yankees drive cash flow everywhere they go and MLB knows that. I just think that some people (not necessarily you Dochalo) are so Arod hateful that they don't want to see the other hypocrisy happening on the other side of the fence.

 

well said... this in spades

[Stradling]

i'd like to believe that.. but these are the same men that turned a blind eye for 20 years.. hard to give them credit for being upstanding human beings now

I don't for a second think you "want to believe that". I think you want to live in your conspiracy world. I don't believe that MLB went after Arod because it would help the Yankees. They went after Arod because they want to clean up the game or give the impression of cleaning up the game. Either way they are trying to discourage further use of PED's.

[mancini79]

i'd like to believe that.. but these are the same men that turned a blind eye for 20 years.. hard to give them credit for being upstanding human beings now

 

 

And the Federal Govt threatened to convene because of it. MLB doesn't want to go through that circus again or the Feds will make sure to implement their own rules.

[Docwaukee]

Again I don't necessarily disagree with a majority of what you said. But honestly the Yankess have a clear multi-million dollar interest in having the decision come down as it did. MLB, which knows the Yankees are the bread and butter of the league also have an interest in the Yankees succeeding too. The Yankees drive cash flow everywhere they go and MLB knows that. I just think that some people (not necessarily you Dochalo) are so Arod hateful that they don't want to see the other hypocrisy happening on the other side of the fence.

I agree that the Yankees drive cash.  But bear this in mind - people would likely be more inclined to pay attention if Arod were on the team then not.  The Yankees would likely do very little different if he were or weren't.  Suspending him probably costs the league money.  Money to pursue this.  Money in lost revenue.  Money is lost coverage. 

 

The league actually gets the money the Yankees pay in CBT.  It goes into an 'industry growth fund' to help promote the league and pay for player benefits. 

 

One year of lost revenue for Arod and the Yankees paying it cost the league major cash if it somehow helps them below the CBT and resets their number.  10's of millions.  Plus the cost of pursuing this we a legal team?  It's probably costing millions. 

 

So what is the league actually getting out of this by helping the Yankees? 

[Stradling]

That's fine Stradling and I even understand how you feel. But what is the point of setting rules when you aren't going to apply them correctly?

Frankly I despise Arod. But he should be treated under the CBA rules fairly like all others. I just think that MLB and the Yankees have a vested multi-million dollar interest in pushing this further than they responsibly should within the confines of their powers. Selig to me is a hypocrite too because he turned a blind eye to this behavior for many years.

Ettin, you know how I feel about your posts on here, I respect the hell out of them but in this case you are wrong. Show me where in the CBA it says how long a suspension should be for embarrassing the game by lying on national tv multiple times about PED use. Show me where in the CBA it says how long a suspension should be for covering up his involvement in this investigation.

[mancini79]

First of all Mancini you don't have to all caps me?

 

Second it started at 212 and that is what MLB set it at. That was excessive and outside of the rules of the CBA.

 

Just wanted to be clear he was independent. Didn't mean to offend you.

 

But the 212 games were within the rules of the CBA since this wasn't about a failed drug test.

[Troll Daddy]

I have to wonder what Arods motivation was to take PEDs after signing that mega contract with the Yankees. At least Hamilton and Pujols were smart enough to quit after signing their big contracts.

 

ok I'm just kidding

[Docwaukee]

Noone is questioning this... but i find the timings all a bit too convenient is all... you can agree or not, but i think you give them too much credit for being better people than they are... i could be wrong, but then again maybe im not, who knows

I don't know if they are good people.  I suspect no altruism here.  The league is playing by the new rules that both they and the players agreed upon.  I think the timing is irrelevant.

 

Another thing to consider - they just re-did the posting system which took time and delayed Tanaka's being posted.  Normally, it would have happened before the beginning of the year and he would have signed by now.  This process with Arod has been going on for some time.  Is there some sort of collusion with the Yankees, MLB, MLBPA, NPB that they have all coordinated to time this up so Tanaka's signing would be delayed and hold up the whole offseason so he could sign with the Yankees because they now know they won't have to pay Arod?  It's still not a done deal yet btw.  Arod is likely going to sign a TRO anyway and the suspension may not even start for awhile. 

 

To many moving parts here for me to consider this a conspiracy. 

[Docwaukee]

I have to wonder what Arods motivation was to take PEDs after signing that mega contract with the Yankees. At least Hamilton and Pujols were smart enough to quit after signing their big contracts.

 

ok I'm just kidding

cayshe mohney

[YouthofToday]

He is given a milestone bonus of $6mil for HRs 660, 714, 762 and 763. Which is why it is important that he sit zero games for him to reach those HR marks. He knows his healthy years are limited and needs to cash in now. As for what this is all costing him...his image. Good luck getting in the HOF.

Interesting. I could see the Yankees DFAjng him as soon as after the 2015 season to ensure they don't pay those bonuses -- even if he is still a semi-productive player.