Upcoming trade deadline (July 30th)

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, AngelStew43 said:

If Anderson can keep pitching at an ERA below 3.50, every contender will make an offer.  His contract is also team friendly for a SP.  

Rengifo has value for the bat alone.  Drury has value if the bat improves.  Estevez would bring back a nice return.  I would trade Sandoval as a change of scenery candidate, hoping I could get a decent minor league SP in return. 

O'Hoppe, Neto, Schanuel, and Adell have to stay as part of a core of young talent.  Same for Detmers and Soriano.  Dana and Kerry are untouchable, IMO. 

 

I'm sorry, but did you just say that Brett Kerry was "untouchable?"  Seriously?  That's absurd.  He's off to an ok start this season, but he's not exactly Paul Skenes...

I really don't think Drury has much value at this point, even if his bat picks up.  He's not super expensive, but he's also not a bargain, given what he seems capable of at this point.

Estevez will be traded, but, again, unless he starts to do better, I don't think he'll bring back all that much, either.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure the guys with expiring contracts would even bring back a collective haul that would more or less replace the talent that the Angels traded last year in that ill-fated attempt to stay competitive.  It would likely require trading Rengifo, maybe Sandoval if someone thinks they can make him less of a headcase, etc.

 

[mmc]

4 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'm sorry, but did you just say that Brett Kerry was "untouchable?"  Seriously?  That's absurd.  He's off to an ok start this season, but he's not exactly Paul Skenes...

I really don't think Drury has much value at this point, even if his bat picks up.  He's not super expensive, but he's also not a bargain, given what he seems capable of at this point.

Estevez will be traded, but, again, unless he starts to do better, I don't think he'll bring back all that much, either.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure the guys with expiring contracts would even bring back a collective haul that would more or less replace the talent that the Angels traded last year in that ill-fated attempt to stay competitive.  It would likely require trading Rengifo, maybe Sandoval if someone thinks they can make him less of a headcase, etc.

 

I’m assuming he meant Kent

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, fan_since79 said:

Whatever happened to those 20 pitchers we drafted a while back? 

One was Bachman, who can't stay healthy.  One was Silseth, who has shown some signs of being a productive major leaguer, but is still young, inconsistent, and perhaps injury-prone.  Bush, Marceaux, and Albright were all traded last year.

A few of the guys don't appear to be playing anywhere anymore.  One guy (Marcelo Perez) didn't sign.

Of the remaining guys, Brett Kerry seems to be doing ok.  Luke Murphy is in his third year at AA and seems to get worse each year.  Ryan Costeiu had Tommy John surgery and hasn't pitched since 2022.  Mason Erla has been converted to a late-inning reliever at AA this year and is doing well--but he'll be 27 in August and doesn't strike anyone out.  Nick Jones has done ok and might pop up to the majors at some point as a reliever. 

I posted something similar to this a couple weeks ago and got pushback, but I don't really care.  That draft class is a borderline disaster.  All but one of the guys was a college pitcher and only two of them have made it to the majors.  Most of the guys who are still in the system are 25 or older at this point, and none are exactly setting the world on fire. 

EDIT: Looks like three of the guys from that draft (Albanese, Dufault, and Mondak) are on the minor league 60-day IL, which is why none of them have pitched so far this year--but none of them have done much in the minors since they were drafted, anyway.  All three will be 25-26-years-old by the end of this season and none of them have pitched more than a handful of (ineffective) innings at AA so far. 

Edited May 7 by jsnpritchett

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, mmc said:

I’m assuming he meant Kent

I'd make an only slightly less perplexed response to the notion of him being "untouchable."

[Jason]

37 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

BP pieces like Strickland, Garcia, Cimber, Moore and Estevez. Maybe package some get better prospect. Anderson, Ward, Rengifo and Drury should go as it's time to add as many prospect as we can. 

None of those guys are playing particularly well so I wouldn't expect much in return. Ward and Rengifo have the most value though. 

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Taylor said:

Should have traded Anderson sooner.

Meh, one bad pitch in 5.2 innings

Hitting continues to suck on this road trip.

Cy Keller

[Blarg]

It's the first week of May, FFS! What is unscrewed in all of your heads?

[Dtwncbad]

20 minutes ago, Blarg said:

It's the first week of May, FFS! What is unscrewed in all of your heads?

Uh, they are on pace to lose 105 games Blarg.

[Billy_Ball]

It’s May 6 and I’m looking forward to next year’s MLB Draft.

[halodground]

7 hours ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

They don't suck, but a roster where those guys are among your best players is probably a 65 win team every year, which we're already seeing (and yes I know they're all young and can improve but the Angels have a dismal recent history of continued development from their major league guys). 

Come on now, that's a 70-75 win team at least!

Seriously though, Neto and Schanuel are guys who could be nice complementary players on a good team. I think it is unrealistic to think of them as players to build around, but good teams need guys like them. O'Hoppe could be a bit more, but playing catcher really limits how much you can count on a player for a full season of star level production. Still, he definitely seems like a guy who could develop and be a leader on a championship team if things progress well. Adell is a guy to dream on, but still very much a work in progress and has as much probability of being a career AAAA guy as he does of being a quality major leaguer. The pitching is dismal. Detmers is a 4-5 guy at best at this point in a good organization. He could still develop, but I think mid rotation is a good deal of improvement away for him. Anderson is a known commodity and shouldn't be anything more than a backend of the rotation guy. Sandoval and Canning both are backend of the rotation guys or Triple A insurance on a championship caliber roster. Nothing reassuring in the bullpen either. I don't think Minasian can take the full blame, though he certainly hasn't done anything that makes me hopeful for the future. The organization is a mess, top to bottom. I don't see that changing until Arte either sells or brings in an Epstein type and divests control to them entirely. Restructuring from the ground up is needed.

It would be great if Ward, Rengifo, Drury, Anderson, Estevez, etc. can perform well enough to get some value in return. 

There isn't a single player in the organization that shouldn't be available for the right offer.

I tend to be a homer but anyone looking at the organization at this point and seeing anything other than disfunction is deluding themselves. It works for Arte, he's gotten an amazing return on his investment and continues to benefit from the market he was fortunate to buy his way into. But the on field baseball portion of Angels baseball is very broken at all levels.

 

 

Edited May 7 by halodground

[wopphil]

14 hours ago, stormngt said:

We are a few years away

Trade Anderson, Rengifo, Ward, and should explore Adell.

Then dump every expiring conract

We are more than a few. This team is screwed for the long term. Not only does the major league team suck, the farm is among the worst in baseball. We are in for a long, long drought. 

[Angels in 2030]

I've never seen such a clear bad team that will need to sell pieces off at the TDL -- with such little assets available to them to sell.  The only valuable (even semi valuable) are the young guys that you want to keep.  Maybe if Anderson can stay healthy and continuing pitching well; possibly Reng & Ward could get something decent in the right deal.  But beyond that, it's replacement level vet JAGs.  Likely to receive minor league AAAA fodder.  Hopefully teams get desperate and it's a seller market.  

[Tank]

23 hours ago, totdprods said:

Drury, Estevez, Moore, and any of Cimber, Garcia, or Cisnero that are pitching well enough to be moved should be moved. They should sell Anderson basically the first moment someone offers something for him this summer before he turns back into a pumpkin. 

It would be wise to part with one of Rengifo, Ward, Canning or Sandoval if any one of the are going to bring back a really nice return. Wouldn't necessarily tear it all down yet.

that kinda sounds like mostly tearing it all down.

[totdprods]

31 minutes ago, Tank said:

that kinda sounds like mostly tearing it all down.

Tearing it all down would be dealing multiples from Canning, Sandoval, Rengifo and Ward. I’d try to part with one this deadline, at absolute most one arm and one bat, but only if it’s a good market and contingent on a few other things (primarily how youngsters are developing, both MLB and minors).

Otherwise it’s just dealing off vets who are on expiring contracts, plus Anderson. 

I’ve never believed they were going to contend in 2024, but still think 2025 is a possibility with health and progress from the youth. A strong finish from the kids later this year, and maybe Trout/Rendon staying healthy in the second-half, could offer some momentum in the winter for bringing in some FAs. 

Given how strong the AA bullpen is performing, I imagine we could replace Garcia, Cimber, Moore and Estevez (all FAs after this year) with guys like Joyce, Seig, Darrell-Hicks, Yovan, etc. The rotation is a lot more questionable. I think they should sell Anderson the second they get a reasonable offer on him. Dealing Canning or Sandoval mid-season will be a little trickier, given that Soriano will have some sort of innings-limit and Silseth and Bachman both injured. I do think Daniel or Rosenberg getting an August/September audition is reasonable, but I don't think either should be counted on to be anything beyond #5-#6 SP depth going forward. Dealing away from the offense by shopping a well-performing Ward or Rengifo makes the most sense to me, but I do think it's too early to tell. Let's see how Neto, Schanuel, O'Hoppe, Moniak and Adell are doing come June, and see who the Angels draft, before making that decision...but if that group is playing well enough and Ward or Rengifo are getting solid offers, moving one (and aiming to replace within/FA) makes sense. 

Edited May 7 by totdprods

[greginpsca]

 The only guys that would be untouchable to me this season would be Dana, Rada, Kent, and Flores [IE].

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Tearing it all down would be dealing multiples from Canning, Sandoval, Rengifo and Ward. I’d try to part with one this deadline, at absolute most one arm and one bat, but only if it’s a good market and contingent on a few other things (primarily how youngsters are developing, both MLB and minors).

Otherwise it’s just dealing off vets who are on expiring contracts, plus Anderson. 

I’ve never believed they were going to contend in 2024, but still think 2025 is a possibility with health and progress from the youth. A strong finish from the kids later this year, and maybe Trout/Rendon staying healthy in the second-half, could offer some momentum in the winter for bringing in some FAs. 

I struggle to see what value Canning would have unless he completely changes his trajectory between now and the deadline.  Yes, I get that he's controllable through next season, but the fact is, he has never been consistently good.  And his early-season StatCast numbers are flat-out bad.

If for some reason another team offered the Angels a prospect with even mild upside, I'd take the deal in a heartbeat. 

 

[totdprods]

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

If for some reason another team offered the Angels a prospect with even mild upside, I'd take the deal in a heartbeat. 

That's about the only way I see it happening, and that might not be likely. But small-market teams will always value cheap-ish innings, to some degree as well, and he could still provide that if he is healthy throughout the season. But ultimately I don't see him being that likely to go. 

[totdprods]

Looking at it another way...
1) I try to move all of our expiring contracts to just try and fluff up the minors. Kind of replacing what we spent last deadline. We're not going to get a lot for Drury and the Relievers, but we can at least add some org depth, even if just minor-league filler. 
2) Ideally, Anderson is pitching well enough to land a decent prospect or two. Not expecting much. Maybe a safe #5 type or a league-average bat at a position where we're thin in the upper-levels (1B, OF, C) and a low-level higher-risk/decent reward guy. An equivalent to a Davis Daniel/Cole Fontenelle and Randy DeJesus-type seems like a reasonable goal, seeing as how Anderson also has another year under contract. Offer to eat $$$ to get better return.
3) Consider moving one of Rengifo, Ward, Sandoval, or Canning, whoever is pitching or hitting well-enough to bring back an actual good return, either. Contingent of course on said player actually performing well come July. Maybe consider one bat and one arm, but I don't want to totally surrender 2025 yet. I wouldn't deal more than one bat and one arm from this group. Ideally they get a young, MLB-ready bat back for an arm, or a young, MLB-ready arm back for a bat. Essentially just re-starting the arb. cycle for a similarly ceiling-ed player who needs immediate help for the playoffs. 

And then I cross my fingers that Trout and Rendon can be healthy and productive for the second-half, the kids continue performing, and that we draft well, giving the team some momentum into the winter. 
Sign a good arm, a good bat, and a modest mid-tier move or two around the edges and I think they're dark-horse contenders in 2025, kind of like what Kansas City is doing this year so far. 
 

tldr; 
1) trade bullpen + Drury for farm depth to replenish last year's deadline loss
2) trade Anderson if he's doing well enough to get at least one interesting prospect
3) trade one arb. player to restart arb clock on at least one new, MLB-ready player for future core
4) draft good

[Taylor]

Nobody wants Canning. Detmers might be an attractive candidate.

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Nobody wants Canning. Detmers might be an attractive candidate.

He's been fine the last four games, against pretty solid teams in Baltimore, Tampa, Philly and Cleveland. Not too unreasonable to believe his initial struggles could be attributed to late spring dead arm that a lot of pitchers have, especially for a pitcher coming of a career-high 127 IP who missed the year prior. Any team in the lower-half of the budget totem would have some interest, either for a back-of-rotation guy for a non/fringe contender, or a depth guy/long-man for a contending team to give some post-deadline back-of-rotation insurance in case anyone goes down. Guys like that get moved all the time, though usually are one-year deal vets at that point.

I still think Detmers could be a #2/fringe #1 by end of year...and being pre-arb still, he'd be worth a fortune in a trade. It'd be kinda nuts to shop him at this point, unless Arte/Perry/Ron really don't think this team is going anywhere for several years...but they haven't done a thing to indicate that's the plan.

[greginpsca]

I hope they stay away from trading with teams that have farm systems similar to ours, Cough, cough Yankees, cough. And guys like Anderson, Canning, Sandoval have another year of control, that should bring back much more than someone like Drury who is on an expiring contract. I would probably trade only one of those 3 starters at the deadline unless the return was so go that Tdawg would need some bunk time.

[drpiranha]

16 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

I hope they stay away from trading with teams that have farm systems similar to ours, Cough, cough Yankees, cough. And guys like Anderson, Canning, Sandoval have another year of control, that should bring back much more than someone like Drury who is on an expiring contract. I would probably trade only one of those 3 starters at the deadline unless the return was so go that Tdawg would need some bunk time.

One team to stay away from is Atlanta. Minasian still seems to have some past loyalties. We got screwed royally on the Iglesias deal and giving away Herget and getting nothing but cash is mind boggling. He had some past success and could have been a throw-in as part of a package.

[DMVol]

15 minutes ago, drpiranha said:

One team to stay away from is Atlanta. Minasian still seems to have some past loyalties. We got screwed royally on the Iglesias deal and giving away Herget and getting nothing but cash is mind boggling. He had some past success and could have been a throw-in as part of a package.

Still not sure what the Fletcher/Stassi for White trade was all about...moving Fletcher and Stassi for White, who is hurt (I guess) didn't seem to help us any....dead money all the way around and I'm not sure we benefited much financially, if any....

[jsnpritchett]

24 minutes ago, drpiranha said:

One team to stay away from is Atlanta. Minasian still seems to have some past loyalties. We got screwed royally on the Iglesias deal and giving away Herget and getting nothing but cash is mind boggling. He had some past success and could have been a throw-in as part of a package.

I don't know why anyone thinks Herget had any value at all. Clearly, he didn't, or the Angels would have gotten more than cash considerations for him. Why can't people understand that? The Angels have a horrible bullpen, yet they didn't even think Herget was good enough to bring up just to eat up some innings. If the Braves wouldn't have done the deal, he would have ended up as a free agent and someone maybe would have signed him to a minor league deal. 

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Still not sure what the Fletcher/Stassi for White trade was all about...moving Fletcher and Stassi for White, who is hurt (I guess) didn't seem to help us any....dead money all the way around and I'm not sure we benefited much financially, if any....

Freed up two spots on the 40-man from players no longer needed (at least at the time) seemingly played a part too. I know Fletcher was already outrighted off the 40 (and Stassi could have been too) but neither player really had a future here. White probably doesn't either, but if he does show up healthy, we at least need a 1B at SLC.

Given that Atlanta made a few similar deals, would not be surprised if they initiated it and there really wasn't much reason for Perry to say no. That's my best guess. If I' doing the math right, the Angels did save something like $4M in the deal too.

Edited May 7 by totdprods