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I think we really screwed up with R Iglesias


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Great trade to get him from the Reds.

Mistake 1: Not trading him at the deadline.

Mistake 2: Trading him for practically nothing but salary relief.

We should have traded him and then pursued him as a FA or in year 2 ate some of his contract to get something of value from the Braves or just keep him.

Relievers now are going for a lot now and apparently we're good again but without a proven closer. 

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43 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Not trading him at the deadline before re-signing him was a huge mistake. 

This.

I don’t think keeping him through the trade was essential to re-signing him if you gave him the most money in free agency.

I was and still am fine with dumping the salary because paying $16M for the next three seasons for a closer with declining velocity is scary.

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If 16 million was still on the payroll and due to Iglesias, then it's unlikely you get Urshela or Renfroe. 

The Angels would've had a lot of holes and too little money. The Braves rescued them and Iglesias pitched better in a Braves uniform than he has in any other his whole life. 

All parties walked away happy on this one. ATL got the stud reliever they need. Angels got the salary relief. Iglesias gets paid and plays for a contender year in and year out. 

Edited by Second Base
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1 hour ago, Second Base said:

If 16 million was still on the payroll and due to Iglesias, then it's unlikely you get Urshela or Renfroe. 

The Angels would've had a lot of holes and too little money. The Braves rescued them and Iglesias pitched better in a Braves uniform than he has in any other his whole life. 

All parties walked away happy on this one. ATL got the stud reliever they need. Angels got the salary relief. Iglesias gets paid and plays for a contender year in and year out. 

Exactly.  Elite closers are a luxury and the Angels have many holes to address. The recent moves have definitely helped, but they're still a bit away from competing with the Astros. 

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3 hours ago, Second Base said:

If 16 million was still on the payroll and due to Iglesias, then it's unlikely you get Urshela or Renfroe. 

The Angels would've had a lot of holes and too little money. The Braves rescued them and Iglesias pitched better in a Braves uniform than he has in any other his whole life. 

All parties walked away happy on this one. ATL got the stud reliever they need. Angels got the salary relief. Iglesias gets paid and plays for a contender year in and year out. 

You forgot....And Jessie Chavez gets to bounce from the Halos to the Braves.....AGAIN!

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4 hours ago, Second Base said:

If 16 million was still on the payroll and due to Iglesias, then it's unlikely you get Urshela or Renfroe. 

The Angels would've had a lot of holes and too little money. The Braves rescued them and Iglesias pitched better in a Braves uniform than he has in any other his whole life. 

All parties walked away happy on this one. ATL got the stud reliever they need. Angels got the salary relief. Iglesias gets paid and plays for a contender year in and year out. 

Excellent take.  Nevin can manufacture a bullpen, but not so much a 3rd baseman or left fielder

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Yep. I wanted them to trade him at the deadline.

Just like I wanted them to sell high on a few other guys over the years that we’re now hoping for bounce back seasons from. 

Year after year the Angels continue to double down on their mistakes. I was all for the salary dump this time around with Iglesias but to see 11 mill go to Renfroe, I don’t know about that

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Minasian basically parlayed the free payroll space directly into Anderson's contract.  All things considered, I'd probably rather have the SP than the RP.  

As @Swordsman78 mentioned, bullpens can be manufactured.  We see it literally all the time - teams pick up random relievers who were discarded by multiple teams, then convert them into a stud reliever.  We can cycle through and find good relievers, but it is much more difficult to do that with other positions.  Minasian is filling those other positions.

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8 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Great trade to get him from the Reds.

Mistake 1: Not trading him at the deadline.

Mistake 2: Trading him for practically nothing but salary relief.

We should have traded him and then pursued him as a FA or in year 2 ate some of his contract to get something of value from the Braves or just keep him.

Relievers now are going for a lot now and apparently we're good again but without a proven closer. 

Off season not over. Perry has had a very good start and he's not done.

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Two things: 1) We’ll never know what prospect Minasian might have gotten in 2021 at the deadline for Iglesias. I have to think that an elite closer (in 2021) might have gotten more than a Moniak/Tucker Davidson type. But we don’t know. 2) If we had eaten some of the 50 million on Iglesias’ deal at the deadline this year, and gotten a better prospect, would Arte have considered that a sunk 2022 cost, not effecting things going forward? Don’t know. 

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I'd like to see what we have from the injured guys who are returning first before I overpay for a closer.  We have Canning, CRod, Soriano, Ben Joyce, Bachman, Ingram, etc.  All power arms.  All coming back, or coming into camp.  We also still have Herget, Tepera, and Loup under contract.  

I think the staff will be able to piece together a good bullpen from some of those, maybe a surprisingly good one. 

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7 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I'd like to see what we have from the injured guys who are returning first before I overpay for a closer.  We have Canning, CRod, Soriano, Ben Joyce, Bachman, Ingram, etc.  All power arms.  All coming back, or coming into camp.  We also still have Herget, Tepera, and Loup under contract.  

I think the staff will be able to piece together a good bullpen from some of those, maybe a surprisingly good one. 

Jose Quijada and Wantz coming back

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It was kind of a dickish move to keep Raisel, sign him and then move him half a year later.  

I'm convinced this was part of the Maddon/Minasian pissing match.  Moving him at the deadline was a very clear indication in my opinion of Perry getting control of the team back from Joe.  

And yes, huge mistake by not trading him at the 2021 deadline.  Here's some fun, random and unsubstantiated speculation that people can chew on.  Almost a trollish post if you will.  

What if Perry, who has an obvious relationship with the Braves and who were in full buy mode at that deadline, had Spencer Strider on the table for Raisel?  He was only their #12 prospect at the time.  

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Meh. We did what we had to do to retain him. We did what we had to do to get out of the contract. Both deals made perfect sense at the time given the context.

Relievers are so volatile that Tepera could wind up being as good as Iglesias next year. 

Maybe they just re-appropriate that $15m or whatever it was and lock up Fulmer, Jansen, or Kimbrel to the same AAV and for a year or two less, and it arguably work out just as well. 

I don’t want to give up on him yet, but I wonder if Adell could be flipped to a team like Detroit or Colorado or Kansas City or Pittsburgh for an above-average controlled relief arm. It would probably take another prospect, but relievers have enough volatility that it might align with Adell’s value. Sort of like the Kyle Lewis for Cooper Hummel deal. Gets Adell a fresh start in a low-pressure environment with a team that can be patient with him, and the Angels get a somewhat unproven arm that could emerge as a closer.

Dillon Tate?

Edited by totdprods
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37 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Meh. We did what we had to do to retain him. We did what we had to do to get out of the contract. Both deals made perfect sense at the time given the context.

disagree on this.  Why would you sign a guy to a multi year contract and make that level of commitment only to switch gears 6 months later?  This speaks of discord in the front office of what the plan is/should be and tells us that Minasian wasn't on board with it.  If they routinely treat recently signed free agents as such, it's not a good optic for future people who may have interest.  

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8 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

disagree on this.  Why would you sign a guy to a multi year contract and make that level of commitment only to switch gears 6 months later?  This speaks of discord in the front office of what the plan is/should be and tells us that Minasian wasn't on board with it.  If they routinely treat recently signed free agents as such, it's not a good optic for future people who may have interest.  

 You mean that Syndegaard and Iglesias would be angry after getting shipped to playoff teams? In mid season trades it’s normally contenders looking for players to plug a hole. Players know this is always a possibility. 

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8 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

disagree on this.  Why would you sign a guy to a multi year contract and make that level of commitment only to switch gears 6 months later?  This speaks of discord in the front office of what the plan is/should be and tells us that Minasian wasn't on board with it.  If they routinely treat recently signed free agents as such, it's not a good optic for future people who may have interest.  

Uh, yeah? That seems about right. Arte might have pushed himself in. Maddon might have lobbied enough.

But seriously, I think they entered last season aiming to contend, and made moves like Iglesias with that in mind. It was an over-commitment that was needed to lockdown closer. 

6 months later, the team sucked, manager fired, Iglesias was faltering some, future was murkier be it impending sale, Ohtani’s willingness to stay, Perry feeling his own heat…Atlanta comes up and offers Perry a way out of the deal and he sees it as an opportunity to have more financial flexibility - something he maybe didn’t know much about on Aug. 1 - and puts it on himself to find another solution this winter, one perhaps more cost-effective, especially if Tamin’s magic bullpen matrix was starting to produce results with Nevin that it wasn’t with Maddon. 

The context for a lot of things changed dramatically.

Edited by totdprods
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I think Perry is trying to win in the moment. It's why they acquired Iglesias, they thought they could win with him. Perry didn't deal him at the deadline because he wanted to extend him and would thus be in a better position to win. And then Minasian traded him, because he thought the money freed up could be reallocated and put the team in a better position to win. 

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2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Uh, yeah? That seems about right.

But seriously, I think they entered last season aiming to contend, and made moves like Iglesias with that in mind. It was an over-commitment that was needed to lockdown closer. 

6 months later, the team sucked, manager fired, Iglesias was faltering some, future was murkier be it impending sale, Ohtani’s willingness to stay, Perry feeling his own heat…Atlanta comes up and offers Perry a way out of the deal and he sees it as an opportunity to have more financial flexibility - something he maybe didn’t know much about on Aug. 1 - and puts it on himself to find another solution this winter, one perhaps more cost-effective, especially if Tamin’s magic bullpen matrix was starting to produce results with Nevin that it wasn’t with Maddon. 

The context for a lot of things changed dramatically.

all up until your last line.  

The context is that they're still trying to be competitive and if he thought a 3 year commitment to a closer made the team that in the off season then you'd think he'd still feel that way now and a year from now.  I just don't think he's the one that really felt that way.  

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1 hour ago, Docwaukee said:

disagree on this.  Why would you sign a guy to a multi year contract and make that level of commitment only to switch gears 6 months later?  This speaks of discord in the front office of what the plan is/should be and tells us that Minasian wasn't on board with it.  If they routinely treat recently signed free agents as such, it's not a good optic for future people who may have interest.  

The shit part is that we didn't trade some of our other FA signings 6 months later...

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