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So if the Angels sell... (NL Central Version)


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Continuing discussion on who the Angels could acquire if they're true sellers - which is still the likeliest outcome. I thought I would go through each division and break down some of the likeliest teams we deal with and some of the likeliest prospects we could target or hope to receive. 

The first thread in the series: NL East

Please try to add your own thoughts onto which prospects I might have missed or who you think would be the best outcomes in true selling scenarios...no need to devolve into fantastical Adell for Berrios/Scherzer/Alcantara-type deals in this thread when we have that in others. 

Cincinnati Reds: Seeking SS, RP

  • Graham Ashcraft, 23, AA, RHP: 
    Reds’ #17 prospect on MLB.com, profiles as a power reliever but succeeding as a SP still, probably out of reach but a best-case scenario return.
  • Jared Solomon, 24, AA, RHP:
    #19, recovering from TJ, also profiles as a reliever, plus-fastball, solid slider, iffy command pre-surgery, already on 40-man.
  • Noah Davis, 24, A+, RHP:
    #26 , Cali product with several solid but no elite offerings, strong results, much like many other current A+/AA ball Angel SP prospects, R5 eligible this winter. Dealt to COL with Case Williams for Michal Gyvens 7/28
  • Luis Mey, 20, A, RHP:
    #27 prototypical relief prospect with firm fastball and developing secondary pitches.

The Reds have been one of the more tenacious contenders this season, and the Angels match up well with Cincy’s needs here. With a long-term need at SS, the Reds will likely shop in the FA market this winter, but a stopgap like Jose Iglesias, who played for Cincinnati in 2019, is a natural fit here. Additionally, almost anyone in the Angels’ bullpen would be an improvement over the Reds’ current bullpen. This is another situation where packaging a couple vets together – Iglesias and an arm – could help land the Halos a decent prospect.

Milwaukee Brewers: seeking offensive upgrades

  • Patrick Weigel, 27, AAA, LHP:
    #17, former Brave, Cali product, mired in up-and-down reliever turf, would be an uninspired but sensible add, on 40-man.
  • Payton Henry, 24, AAA, C:  
    #20, all-around solid catching prospect with 44% CS% this year and a decent bat, was left unprotected in R5 this winter.
  • Victor Castaneda, 24, A+, RHP:
    Profiling as a multi-inning RP/tandem SP type with plus forkball and solid mix of pitches, R5 eligible this winter.

The Brewers have one of the deepest rotations in baseball and a top of the bullpen that is almost unmatched, with an offense in need of some assistance, particularly at 1B/3B and on the periphery – OF and bench. It’s hard to see how the Angels fit here unless the Brewers take interest in names like Gosselin, Ward, Lagares, none of whom figure to bring back a substantial command, and that would only be after Milwaukee strikes out on adding more impact offense elsewhere. Milwaukee likes to get creative in trades however, and perhaps there's a three-team deal that could be made here, or something like a change-of-scenery buy-and-sell swap that could be made, much like mentioned in the NL East thread regarding the Braves.

 

St. Louis Cardinals: likely selling for 2021

The only real option here is if the teams match up with one of the Cardinals controlled relievers and the Angels move controlled SP/OF depth back to St. Louis. Not likely.
 

Chicago Cubs: expected to sell

If any trades are made with the Cubs it will be because the Angels flipped to buyers. There might not be a better team to match up if should that flip occur.
 

Pittsburgh Pirates: expected to sell

Same as above. Unless you count Dillon Peters.

 

Which prospects might you want to see the Angels acquire from these teams if they become true sellers?

Edited by totdprods
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10 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I just want to see some good value returns. None of these pure lotto tickets like Alex Meyer. Someone that we can use in a trade later, at the very least. 

Talent that's closer to MLB-ready, or someone further off with more upside and risk? Any preference?

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19 hours ago, totdprods said:

Continuing discussion on who the Angels could acquire if they're true sellers - which is still the likeliest outcome. I thought I would go through each division and break down some of the likeliest teams we deal with and some of the likeliest prospects we could target or hope to receive. 

The first thread in the series: NL East

Please try to add your own thoughts onto which prospects I might have missed or who you think would be the best outcomes in true selling scenarios...no need to devolve into fantastical Adell for Berrios/Scherzer/Alcantara-type deals in this thread when we have that in others. 

Cincinnati Reds: Seeking SS, RP

  • Graham Ashcraft, 23, AA, RHP: 
    Reds’ #17 prospect on MLB.com, profiles as a power reliever but succeeding as a SP still, probably out of reach but a best-case scenario return.
  • Jared Solomon, 24, AA, RHP:
    #19, recovering from TJ, also profiles as a reliever, plus-fastball, solid slider, iffy command pre-surgery, already on 40-man.
  • Noah Davis, 24, A+, RHP:
    #26 , Cali product with several solid but no elite offerings, strong results, much like many other current A+/AA ball Angel SP prospects, R5 eligible this winter.
  • Luis Mey, 20, A, RHP:
    #27 prototypical relief prospect with firm fastball and developing secondary pitches.

The Reds have been one of the more tenacious contenders this season, and the Angels match up well with Cincy’s needs here. With a long-term need at SS, the Reds will likely shop in the FA market this winter, but a stopgap like Jose Iglesias, who played for Cincinnati in 2019, is a natural fit here. Additionally, almost anyone in the Angels’ bullpen would be an improvement over the Reds’ current bullpen. This is another situation where packaging a couple vets together – Iglesias and an arm – could help land the Halos a decent prospect.

Milwaukee Brewers: seeking offensive upgrades

  • Patrick Weigel, 27, AAA, LHP:
    #17, former Brave, Cali product, mired in up-and-down reliever turf, would be an uninspired but sensible add, on 40-man.
  • Payton Henry, 24, AAA, C:  
    #20, all-around solid catching prospect with 44% CS% this year and a decent bat, was left unprotected in R5 this winter.
  • Victor Castaneda, 24, A+, RHP:
    Profiling as a multi-inning RP/tandem SP type with plus forkball and solid mix of pitches, R5 eligible this winter.

The Brewers have one of the deepest rotations in baseball and a top of the bullpen that is almost unmatched, with an offense in need of some assistance, particularly at 1B/3B and on the periphery – OF and bench. It’s hard to see how the Angels fit here unless the Brewers take interest in names like Gosselin, Ward, Lagares, none of whom figure to bring back a substantial command, and that would only be after Milwaukee strikes out on adding more impact offense elsewhere. Milwaukee likes to get creative in trades however, and perhaps there's a three-team deal that could be made here, or something like a change-of-scenery buy-and-sell swap that could be made, much like mentioned in the NL East thread regarding the Braves.

 

St. Louis Cardinals: likely selling for 2021

The only real option here is if the teams match up with one of the Cardinals controlled relievers and the Angels move controlled SP/OF depth back to St. Louis. Not likely.
 

Chicago Cubs: expected to sell

If any trades are made with the Cubs it will be because the Angels flipped to buyers. There might not be a better team to match up if should that flip occur.
 

Pittsburgh Pirates: expected to sell

Same as above. Unless you count Dillon Peters.

 

Which prospects might you want to see the Angels acquire from these teams if they become true sellers?

Controllable young relievers make the most sense. We have some depth at other positions. I like the idea of going after teams’ almost ready young reliever arms. 

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24 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

Controllable young relievers make the most sense. We have some depth at other positions. I like the idea of going after teams’ almost ready young reliever arms. 

That's definitely what I'm thinking too, and when writing these, those are the prospects I'm gravitating too. Being that we have mostly rentals to sell, they also feel like the most realistic targets where we can sneak in and get a really good prospect too. Far easier to get a team to part with a a very good RP prospect than a good SP or C.

We're disturbingly short on upper-level relief prospects, even after the draft. 

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25 minutes ago, totdprods said:

We're disturbingly short on upper-level relief prospects, even after the draft. 

This is a bit off topic but ties back into the larger discussion. Why don't we go the Chuck Finley developmental path with certain players any longer?  Is it injury concerns? Do other organizations do this?

Finley was drafted at 22. Was a reliever with the Angels at 23/24. And became a full time starter at 25.

Why not have guys like Bachman spend a year as a reliever with the Angels rather than in AA/AAA. I know it has been mentioned but it could be a developmental path for pitchers every year. They were doing this with Rodriguez but sent him back down to get stretched out. Why not let him stay in the bull pen this year and revisit it next year?

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1 minute ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

This is a bit off topic but ties back into the larger discussion. Why don't we go the Chuck Finley developmental path with certain players any longer?  Is it injury concerns? Do other organizations do this?

Finley was drafted at 22. Was a reliever with the Angels at 23/24. And became a full time starter at 25.

Why not have guys like Bachman spend a year as a reliever with the Angels rather than in AA/AAA. I know it has been mentioned but it could be a developmental path for pitchers every year. They were doing this with Rodriguez but sent him back down to get stretched out. Why not let him stay in the bull pen this year and revisit it next year?

Partially because that was almost 40 years ago...most pitchers like Finley these days are throwing 10+ mph harder and have exponentially more competitive innings thrown in their career already. The game and development has radically changed in that time. 

That said, as you pointed out, the Angels did this with Rodriguez and teams like Los Angeles, Milwaukee, and Tampa do it regularly. It's something that should be considered and under Eppler, it looked like the Angels were developing a lot of their SP talent to serve as more of a multi-inning RP/one-time through SP-type to make the most of their relatively limited ability.

It's to be seen if that continues under Minasian, but seeing as how Suarez and Sandoval (Rodriguez too) both worked in the pen to strong results before moving to rotation, seems viable.

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2 hours ago, totdprods said:

That's definitely what I'm thinking too, and when writing these, those are the prospects I'm gravitating too. Being that we have mostly rentals to sell, they also feel like the most realistic targets where we can sneak in and get a really good prospect too. Far easier to get a team to part with a a very good RP prospect than a good SP or C.

We're disturbingly short on upper-level relief prospects, even after the draft. 

I actually can't think of a single quality upper-level relief prospect. Wantz looks like he will be a solid reliever. Who else in AA or AAA? I actually hope they don't have a fire sale, but if they sell some guys like Ward, Gosselin, or Heaney, it'd be great to get some young bullpen arms. 

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We might be better off going after the best prospects that aren’t required to be on the 40 man roster in one or two of these trades. We will be having a bit of a crunch this next year, and that’s without having a bullpen for next year.  We will see guys like Ward, Thais, Rengifo and Barria traded to get guys that don’t have to be protected or can be a pen arm. 

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24 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

I actually can't think of a single quality upper-level relief prospect. Wantz looks like he will be a solid reliever. Who else in AA or AAA? I actually hope they don't have a fire sale, but if they sell some guys like Ward, Gosselin, or Heaney, it'd be great to get some young bullpen arms. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Aside from 4A vets like Ramos, Hoyt, Danish, Petricka, next in line are probably Oliver Ortega, Connor Higgins and Austin Warren are the next closest.

Then it drops into guys like Kyle Tyler, Denny Brady, Jhonathan Diaz, Cooper Criswell… guys who figure to be more like Dillon Peters/Aaron Slegers up-and-down depth arms more than typical relievers.

I’m actually thinking if they sell, it’s likelier we get good relief prospects for rentals than good SP/C/SS/impact prospects. Especially teams like San Fran or SD Tampa or the Dodgers that tend to spend/develop/sign/find good relievers year in and year out. They might not have the room or patience to test AAA pseudo-ready guys.

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18 minutes ago, totdprods said:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Aside from 4A vets like Ramos, Hoyt, Danish, Petricka, next in line are probably Oliver Ortega, Connor Higgins and Austin Warren are the next closest.

Then it drops into guys like Kyle Tyler, Denny Brady, Jhonathan Diaz, Cooper Criswell… guys who figure to be more like Dillon Peters/Aaron Slegers up-and-down depth arms more than typical relievers.

I’m actually thinking if they sell, it’s likelier we get good relief prospects for rentals than good SP/C/SS/impact prospects. Especially teams like San Fran or SD Tampa or the Dodgers that tend to spend/develop/sign/find good relievers year in and year out. They might not have the room or patience to test AAA pseudo-ready guys.

I don’t expect any of those guys to become anything other than depth.

we all probably need to temper our expectations for the return we can get. There’s no way the Dodgers are trading Ruiz or Gray for rentals. No way. None. 

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3 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

I don’t expect any of those guys to become anything other than depth.

we all probably need to temper our expectations for the return we can get. There’s no way the Dodgers are trading Ruiz or Gray for rentals. No way. None. 

I’m working on the NL West version to have up today, and the Padres are a team ripe with expendable relief talent to start hitting the majors in the next year or so. 

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6 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

I don’t expect any of those guys to become anything other than depth.

we all probably need to temper our expectations for the return we can get. There’s no way the Dodgers are trading Ruiz or Gray for rentals. No way. None. 

The Dodgers traded Willie Calhoun who was their #4 prospect at the time for a rental named Yu Darvish. Not that we have a Yu Darvish but their BP is trash so crazier things have happened. 

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12 minutes ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

The Dodgers traded Willie Calhoun who was their #4 prospect at the time for a rental named Yu Darvish. Not that we have a Yu Darvish but their BP is trash so crazier things have happened. 

Calhoun was sort of limited defensively in a way that made him a tougher fit for the Dodgers, and as you said, Darvish is different from anything we have - though their need for Iglesias is certainly trending up.

Brendon Davis was in that trade also and he’s tearing it up for the Trash Pandas since being promoted to AA.

What’s working best for us and Iglesias is that a lot of teams could use him and there’s absolutely opportunity to get a bidding war going. Not sure that peaks with a Gray or Ruiz though. 

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3 minutes ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

This might be better for your NL West version but it seems like both the Giants and Dodgers could use pitching and both have top C prospects. Maybe the Angels could get a bidding war going just to pull the rug out from under the Dodgers at the last minute for a little payback. 

I’d like that.

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27 minutes ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

This might be better for your NL West version but it seems like both the Giants and Dodgers could use pitching and both have top C prospects. Maybe the Angels could get a bidding war going just to pull the rug out from under the Dodgers at the last minute for a little payback. 

Stay tuned…

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