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Expectations for Skaggs and Henaey


Vlad27Trout27

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2 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

We have moved past the point in their careers where anyone can reasonably expect them to be anything more than what they've shown already.

Which is fine. They are far down the list of problems this team has entering the season

Skaggs was great through 19 starts last year, and then got hurt.  

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3 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

We have moved past the point in their careers where anyone can reasonably expect them to be anything more than what they've shown already.

Which is fine. They are far down the list of problems this team has entering the season

Wait, we are past the point in their careers where we shouldn’t expect anything different from them?  So why would you want Manny Machado, when he has shown to be aloof, lacks hustle and plays dirty?  If this is your barometer then he will never grow out of it.  

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2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Wait, we are past the point in their careers where we shouldn’t expect anything different from them?  So why would you want Manny Machado, when he has shown to be aloof, lacks hustle and plays dirty?  If this is your barometer then he will never grow out of it.  

I fully agree he won't grow out of it. 

I tend to kind of think that the benefit outweighs it with Machado though.

I also could not care less about the plays dirty thing. How does that make him a worse player? 

The hustle thing is a legit concern

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1 minute ago, Stradling said:

But they do perform better when healthy versus not healthy.  Skaggs 2.62 ERA through 19 starts.  

Sure, but Skaggs has battled those injury problems his entire career. Last season was actually the most he's ever pitched in a season.

Maybe he has a career year soon but I'm not banking on him to pitch more than 150 innings ever

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Skaggs - 180 innings 2.90 ERA 190 K's. Developes into a legitimate ace. Negotiations on extension are kicked into gear.

Heaney - 195 innings 3.45 ERA 185 K's. Is a true workhorse. Angels but out option years plus one year of FA.

Harvey - 130 innings 3.90 ERA 140 K's. Starts the year off right, but ineffectiveness settles in mid May, is slowed by injury in June, comes back as a part of a bullpen game with JC Ramirez, Trevor Cahill and Suarez/Canning and thrives in that role in July and is traded in August.

Cahill - 90 innings 3.20 ERA 90 K's. Is injured on and off for much of the first half. Eventually settles into a bullpen role, eating three innings as part of a bullpen game with Harvey, Suarez and Canning.

Barria - 90 innings 4.50 ERA 70 K's. Gets knocked around to start the year before getting demoted and returning in August. 

Suarez - 50 innings 4.30 ERA 55 K's. Does decent in bullpen games and enters 2020 as a swiss army knife in the bullpen, serving as a lefty specialist,  multi inning reliever and shot starter. 

Canning - 75 innings 4.10 ERA 70 K's. Stuff really plays up at the major leagues, though under developed out pitch will hold him back somewhat. Works his way into a long bullpen role midway through the year.  Enters 2020 as the fifth starter. Enjoys a career similar to that of Trevor Bauer. 

2020 rotation will be Ohtani, Cole, Skaggs,  Heaney, Canning and they will win 90 games that year.  In 2021 they'll win 98 games and the world series.

 

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55 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Skaggs and Heaney are soon to be 28 years old. You just usually don't see players start performing better at that age. It happens, but it's more rare

It's not that rare.  It's actually pretty common for SP's.  As Strad mentioned, Skaggs was brilliant through 19 starts and then got hurt.  

the only thing that will hold him back is injury/innings.  But 170ip with a sub 3 era is coming.  He'll likely never be that workhorse guy who cracks 210-220 ip.  

Heaney is a #3.  He might have a couple of #2 type seasons at some point in his career (I hope with us) where he has an era in the mid to low 3's or he'll just consistently give you innings and a sub 4 era.  



 

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8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

It's not that rare.  It's actually pretty common for SP's.  As Strad mentioned, Skaggs was brilliant through 19 starts and then got hurt.  

the only thing that will hold him back is injury/innings.  But 170ip with a sub 3 era is coming.  He'll likely never be that workhorse guy who cracks 210-220 ip.  

Heaney is a #3.  He might have a couple of #2 type seasons at some point in his career (I hope with us) where he has an era in the mid to low 3's or he'll just consistently give you innings and a sub 4 era.  



 

The Red Sox paid Eovaldi to do just that this year.  Scherzer was good at 27 and became this dominant version at age 28.  Randy Johnson’s first really good season was age 29.  

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9 hours ago, Second Base said:

Skaggs - 180 innings 2.90 ERA 190 K's. Developes into a legitimate ace. Negotiations on extension are kicked into gear.

Heaney - 195 innings 3.45 ERA 185 K's. Is a true workhorse. Angels but out option years plus one year of FA.

Harvey - 130 innings 3.90 ERA 140 K's. Starts the year off right, but ineffectiveness settles in mid May, is slowed by injury in June, comes back as a part of a bullpen game with JC Ramirez, Trevor Cahill and Suarez/Canning and thrives in that role in July and is traded in August.

Cahill - 90 innings 3.20 ERA 90 K's. Is injured on and off for much of the first half. Eventually settles into a bullpen role, eating three innings as part of a bullpen game with Harvey, Suarez and Canning.

Barria - 90 innings 4.50 ERA 70 K's. Gets knocked around to start the year before getting demoted and returning in August. 

Suarez - 50 innings 4.30 ERA 55 K's. Does decent in bullpen games and enters 2020 as a swiss army knife in the bullpen, serving as a lefty specialist,  multi inning reliever and shot starter. 

Canning - 75 innings 4.10 ERA 70 K's. Stuff really plays up at the major leagues, though under developed out pitch will hold him back somewhat. Works his way into a long bullpen role midway through the year.  Enters 2020 as the fifth starter. Enjoys a career similar to that of Trevor Bauer. 

2020 rotation will be Ohtani, Cole, Skaggs,  Heaney, Canning and they will win 90 games that year.  In 2021 they'll win 98 games and the world series.

 

Skaggs= 165 innings 3.50 Era 175 K's

Heaney- 180 inning -3.35 Era 181 K's- big year from him

Harvey- 160 inning- 3.80 Era 170 K's

Cahil- 130 inning- 3.55 Era: i Thing Doug will make him this years Morton or Peakcock

Barria- 155-160 inning around a 3.90- 4.20 inning

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10 hours ago, Second Base said:

Skaggs - 180 innings 2.90 ERA 190 K's. Developes into a legitimate ace. Negotiations on extension are kicked into gear.

Heaney - 195 innings 3.45 ERA 185 K's. Is a true workhorse. Angels but out option years plus one year of FA.

Harvey - 130 innings 3.90 ERA 140 K's. Starts the year off right, but ineffectiveness settles in mid May, is slowed by injury in June, comes back as a part of a bullpen game with JC Ramirez, Trevor Cahill and Suarez/Canning and thrives in that role in July and is traded in August.

Cahill - 90 innings 3.20 ERA 90 K's. Is injured on and off for much of the first half. Eventually settles into a bullpen role, eating three innings as part of a bullpen game with Harvey, Suarez and Canning.

Barria - 90 innings 4.50 ERA 70 K's. Gets knocked around to start the year before getting demoted and returning in August. 

Suarez - 50 innings 4.30 ERA 55 K's. Does decent in bullpen games and enters 2020 as a swiss army knife in the bullpen, serving as a lefty specialist,  multi inning reliever and shot starter. 

Canning - 75 innings 4.10 ERA 70 K's. Stuff really plays up at the major leagues, though under developed out pitch will hold him back somewhat. Works his way into a long bullpen role midway through the year.  Enters 2020 as the fifth starter. Enjoys a career similar to that of Trevor Bauer. 

2020 rotation will be Ohtani, Cole, Skaggs,  Heaney, Canning and they will win 90 games that year.  In 2021 they'll win 98 games and the world series.

 

Bookmarking this page!

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Pre-All Star Break Numbers for Heaney and Skaggs:

Skaggs: 

17 GS

7-5 WL record

98 IP

105/28 K/BB

1.20 Whip

2.57 ERA

 

Heaney:

17GS

5-6 WL record

102.1 IP

102/30 K/BB

1.16 Whip

3.78 ERA

Skaggs only made 7 starts in the second half and I think Heaney just wore down.  In 2017 Heaney pitched in 5 games and Skaggs pitched in 16 games, primarily in August and September.  

I expected Skaggs to be a solid #2 and Heaney a solid #3.  

 

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To start the season:

Skaggs, Heaney, Harvey, Cahill, Barria

I thnk Barria gets demoted and Felix Pena takes over.  He was pretty solid in August and September

Cahill is hurt and Canning takes over by ASB and does not give up his spot

Harvey is traded and either Suarez or Barria take over.

We finish the season with Skaggs, Heaney, Pena, Canning and Barria

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11 hours ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Skaggs and Heaney are soon to be 28 years old. You just usually don't see players start performing better at that age. It happens, but it's more rare

One of the absolute best LHPs in MLB history had a 99 ERA+ through 600+ innings after his age 27 season.   He won five Cy Youngs, first one at age 31, four after age 35.    From age 28 through 38 he posted an ERA+ of 161 and pitched until he was 45  -- obviously he's an extreme outlier but pitchers breaking out after age 27 isn't that rare.
 ___

Corey Kluber had a 89 ERA+ through age 27.   Broke out at age 28.
Trevor Bauer had a 99 ERA+ after 725+ innings through age 26.  Broke out at age 27
Max Scherzer had a 110 ERA+ over 700+ innings through age 27 -- 146 ERA+ from 28 on.
Patrick Corbin had a 104 ERA+ over 700+ innings throgh age 27 -- Broke out at age 28

Those are just the guys among the Cy Young voting last year..

Heaney has thrown 342 innings total in his MLB career.   Skaggs 441.   

They are anything but finished products and MLB is littered with pitchers who didnt break out until after their age 27 seasons.

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9 hours ago, RBM said:

I agree. I think they both will be really effective. Not as aces but as a 2 & 2.

190+ innings each. 

Id be amazed if they top 180 innings barring postseason innings.  I think the Angels will try to keep all their SP fresher, use the pen more.  Its more a case of where the game is heading than anything else.   Even if that wasn't the case, if all they can muster is 180 solid innings then it's a big win for a Halos pitching staff that hasnt seen that in what feels like an eon.

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3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Id be amazed if they top 180 innings barring postseason innings.  I think the Angels will try to keep all their SP fresher, use the pen more.  Its more a case of where the game is heading than anything else.   Even if that wasn't the case, if all they can muster is 180 solid innings then it's a big win for a Halos pitching staff that hasnt seen that in what feels like an eon.

Agreed, except that I can see Heaney pitching more than 180 innings.  

He showed some durability in 2018, 30 starts/180 innings.   I can see another 10-20 innings being added on in 2019. 

IF, big IF, the rotation stays healthy, Heaney, Skaggs, Barria, Harvey, and Cahill is a solid enough quintet, with Pena, Canning, Suarez, and eventually Sandoval for depth. 

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