Rule 5

[John Smith]

November 18th

Who gets protected? Who's vulnerable? 40-Man at 40. who gets cut?

 

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, John Smith said:

November 18th

Who gets protected? Who's vulnerable? 40-Man at 40. who gets cut?

 

Fletcher said he thinks Nate Smith is only one likely to be added. 

Choi, Graterol, Petit, Cowart, Navarro, Ege, Tolliver, Yates, Parker, De Los Santos, Campos, Valdez....really could see any of those being DFA'ed without being too surprised at this point. 

[ukyah]

it would be great if we got really creative, and just cherry picked the shit out of some of the deepest farm systems.

[Docwaukee]

the problem for the halos is that the 25man roster isn't that bad and keeping anyone outside of a reliever, 4th OFer or maybe a util IFer would be tough.  

Richards, Shoe, Nolasco, Meyer, Skaggs, Chavez

Street, Bailey, Cam, J Ram, Guerra

Cal, Trout, Maybin, Cron, Pujols, Marte, Escobar, Simmons, Pennington, Bandy, Perez.   

That's 22 and doesn't include Ege, Morin, De Los Santos, Tolliver, Valdez, Wright, Yates, Parker, Choi, Petit, Cowart, Campos, Alvarez, and Banuelos  

Unless there are one or two players that are clearly head and shoulders above those guys and can stick on the 25 man roster, I just don't see much room.  

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

the problem for the halos is that the 25man roster isn't that bad and keeping anyone outside of a reliever, 4th OFer or maybe a util IFer would be tough.  

Richards, Shoe, Nolasco, Meyer, Skaggs, Chavez

Street, Bailey, Cam, J Ram, Guerra

Cal, Trout, Maybin, Cron, Pujols, Marte, Escobar, Simmons, Pennington, Bandy, Perez.   

That's 22 and doesn't include Ege, Morin, De Los Santos, Tolliver, Valdez, Wright, Yates, Parker, Choi, Petit, Cowart, Campos, Alvarez, and Banuelos  

Unless there are one or two players that are clearly head and shoulders above those guys and can stick on the 25 man roster, I just don't see much room.  

I think we will see them take someone still. Eppler has practically said as much, and we're still very thin in AA/AAA of prospects of any sort. I think they'll take guys whom they feel they have a shot at passing through waivers so they can retain them, or go after that same weird group that included Guerra last year, where instead of being returned back to his club he was granted free agency, in which case the Angels practically pre-arranged a minor league deal with him.

I do agree that 4th OF or RP are really the only fits though, and I think a 4th OF is probably the likeliest. Guys like Odubel Herrera, Joey Rickard, and DeShields were picked up with that intent recently, and look at them now. As it stands currently, if Maybin walks next year we are right back to needing an OF again. No one in the minors will likely be ready by '18. Makes sense to try and nab someone now who could fill that 4th OF role this season and potentially slot into LF in '18.

[Second Base]

Cody Ege, Ashur Tolliver, Daniel Wright, Rey Navarro are on their way out i think.  In return, I think we'll sign two more players onto the 40 man through free agency, and another through Rule 5 draft, which leaves us one spot.  Nate Smith seems the likeliest of choices. 

As far as who may be expendable that I'm not ready to cut bait, Blake Parker, Kirby Yates and Ji-Man Choi.  Parker and Yates both have the necessary arsenal to be a JC Ramirez type.  Guys like that are the reason why I'd be hesitant to spend money on a reliever.  But Choi.....I dunno, it's hard to hit .340 in AAA.  That's not an easy feat, and he did it. 

He looked like total crap in the majors, hitting a buck seventy.  But I feel like there will come a time where Choi is going to hit .280 or .290.  He's gotta catch up with a fastball though.  That's embarrassing. 

[Second Base]

11 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I think we will see them take someone still. Eppler has practically said as much, and we're still very thin in AA/AAA of prospects of any sort. I think they'll take guys whom they feel they have a shot at passing through waivers so they can retain them, or go after that same weird group that included Guerra last year, where instead of being returned back to his club he was granted free agency, in which case the Angels practically pre-arranged a minor league deal with him.

I do agree that 4th OF or RP are really the only fits though, and I think a 4th OF is probably the likeliest. Guys like Odubel Herrera, Joey Rickard, and DeShields were picked up with that intent recently, and look at them now. As it stands currently, if Maybin walks next year we are right back to needing an OF again. No one in the minors will likely be ready by '18. Makes sense to try and nab someone now who could fill that 4th OF role this season and potentially slot into LF in '18.

Almost every scout I've talked to says Matt Thaiss can play the OF, and they wouldn't be surprised if that's where he ends up.  I think Thaiss splits 2017 between A+/AA and is ready to roll by June next year. 

[disarcina]

as for us picking up a Rule 5 guy from another team -- I am against given our experience with T. Featherston two years back.

Rule 5 guys have to stay on the MLB roster for the entire season or the team that picks the Rule 5 player loses him back to the player's prior team - no compensation.

So unless the Rule 5 guy can either help you right now or be a starter within two years -- (and if either were the case, the player likely wouldn't be on the Rule 5 draft list to begin with).

So I say no to picking up any rule 5 guy -- Featherston sat on our bench the entire 2014 season , used up a roster spot that could have been used for a more productive player -- I think Featherston got maybe 75 ABs all season, I know that he collected his first hit of the season that year at some point AFTER the All Star Game.......so, really, for most of the season Featherston had the most expensive spectator seat in the house..........

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

Almost every scout I've talked to says Matt Thaiss can play the OF, and they wouldn't be surprised if that's where he ends up.  I think Thaiss splits 2017 between A+/AA and is ready to roll by June next year. 

I would hope Thaiss would be able to handle COF too, but as of this very moment I think it'd be way too premature to go into '18 with him being the likely LF. 

And it's still unlikely any 4th OF taken in the upcoming Rule V would be such a force that it prohibits Thaiss from taking that spot in '18 should he keep advancing.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, disarcina said:

as for us picking up a Rule 5 guy from another team -- I am against given our experience with T. Featherston two years back.

That's silly. Because one player was a Rule V failure, you'd bail on trying it again? Rule V costs the teams nothing. The only reason Featherston stuck on the team all season long is because Dipoto wasn't clever enough to find an in-season upgrade at back-up IF or to acquire a AAA MIF to slot into 2B/SS for '16. At the time, Featherston was a big gamble by Dipoto to give the team a prospect capable of taking over for Aybar, because Baldoquin wasn't going to be there.

Eppler took two guys last season and figured out a way to keep both of them without keeping them on the roster all year, and one of them was a key piece to our bullpen. He knows how to work the Rule V to his advantage. 

Odubel Herrera was taken as a 4th OF and he's arguably one of baseball's best CFers now. The Rangers have Delino DeShields as their reserve 4th OF for depth, and the Orioles got a half season worth of everyday production from a scrub from the Rays named Joey Rickard, a guy who would have outperformed 3.5 years worth of Halo LFs.

[AngelStew43]

If we can pick up another power arm along the lines of J. C. Ramirez, I would be very pleased with that. 

[totdprods]

41 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

If we can pick up another power arm along the lines of J. C. Ramirez, I would be very pleased with that. 

Pitchers like that are frequently available in the Rule V. Hell, the Tigers could opt to cut Alcantara from the 40-man and we could pluck him right back. 

Absolutely no reason not to go crazy on the Rule V. Look at what the Padres did last year, take 5 guys and throw them into the mix in ST. It costs a whopping $25k to offer them back. It's the cheapest way to acquire guys who are often Top 10-20 prospects from a really deep org. 

Jerry Dipoto's inability to address a SS for the future for 8 months is no reason to be afraid of the Rule V.

[Second Base]

43 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I would hope Thaiss would be able to handle COF too, but as of this very moment I think it'd be way too premature to go into '18 with him being the likely LF. 

And it's still unlikely any 4th OF taken in the upcoming Rule V would be such a force that it prohibits Thaiss from taking that spot in '18 should he keep advancing.

I just kind of feel like grabbing a 4th OF via the Rule 5 Draft doesn't  add up. Not when you can get one via waivers of FA, or they simply could've held onto Ortega. I mean at that rate, why not promote Hinshaw or Way to be a defensive specialist and pinch runner/bunter?

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I just kind of feel like grabbing a 4th OF via the Rule 5 Draft doesn't  add up. Not when you can get one via waivers of FA, or they simply could've held onto Ortega. I mean at that rate, why not promote Hinshaw or Way to be a defensive specialist and pinch runner/bunter?

The whole point of the Rule V is to add talent to your system. Putting Hinshaw or Way on the 40-man doesn't do anything beneficial for their sake or the org's. Regarding Ortega, it's likely they had a long enough look at him to know he wasn't going to provide much more than he currently was. 

Rule V guys tend to be a little differ net from your average waiver claim. More raw, more upside, more youth. Not all, but some. Guys like Odubel Herrera and Delino DeShields tend to have a little brighter future than the Shane Robinsons drifting around out there.

And again, what's the risk? If they suck, send them back or try to find a way to keep them like we did Choi and Guerra. 

 

[disarcina]

OK -- perhaps I am wrong about the Rule V stuff - there is some advantage to taking a $25,000 flyer as some suggest.

So what I am really stating is that if you're going to take a Rule V flyer, don't 'fall in love' with the Rule V player to the point you refuse to give him back AT ANY POINT during the season, rather than 1.) having him make the team over a better deserving player (just because he's a Rule V guy and you have to give him back); 2.) if the guy makes the 25 man roster, KEEP HIM ALL SEASON (despite the team's needs in other areas, pen depth, another bat, OF depth, other bench depth) just because he's a Rule V player AND 3.) if oyu reach May, approaching June, and the Rule V player has less than 50 ABs and (and in Featherson's case, NO HITS) -- cut him loose and send him back.

We wasted a valuable roster spot on Featherston in 2015. I MIGHT (doubtful) HAVE understood is the guy was going to be our starter at 2B in 2016 and beyond --- but not only wasn't he that -- we essentially gave him away at the end of the season (which was fine from my stand point -- it just highlighted even more the complete waste of the roster spot during the season).

So, take a flyer on some of the Rule V list guys ? Sure?  Keep him all season ?  Not necessary and actually counter-productive.

[ettin]

I can only see the Angels taking a position player if they fail to fill a spot around the diamond or there is a long-term injury before the Draft. However a starter or reliever might be a low probability pickup but again that seems doubtful considering the array of options we have already picked up and the likely lack of room on the 40-man.

Realistically if we do pick something it will be a reliever or bench 4th OF type. Starters usually aren't available anyway so that is a long shot too and it is not really what the Angels, who want to compete, should be doing.

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, disarcina said:

OK -- perhaps I am wrong about the Rule V stuff - there is some advantage to taking a $25,000 flyer as some suggest.

So what I am really stating is that if you're going to take a Rule V flyer, don't 'fall in love' with the Rule V player to the point you refuse to give him back AT ANY POINT during the season, rather than 1.) having him make the team over a better deserving player (just because he's a Rule V guy and you have to give him back); 2.) if the guy makes the 25 man roster, KEEP HIM ALL SEASON (despite the team's needs in other areas, pen depth, another bat, OF depth, other bench depth) just because he's a Rule V player AND 3.) if oyu reach May, approaching June, and the Rule V player has less than 50 ABs and (and in Featherson's case, NO HITS) -- cut him loose and send him back.

We wasted a valuable roster spot on Featherston in 2015. I MIGHT (doubtful) HAVE understood is the guy was going to be our starter at 2B in 2016 and beyond --- but not only wasn't he that -- we essentially gave him away at the end of the season (which was fine from my stand point -- it just highlighted even more the complete waste of the roster spot during the season).

So, take a flyer on some of the Rule V list guys ? Sure?  Keep him all season ?  Not necessary and actually counter-productive.

i don't think you'll find anyone, literally, that will disagree with you that featherston was a total waste. he's not that good, talentwise. i like stealing prospects from overloaded teams and getting former top prospects whose star has dimmed. i think that's where the great rewards come from. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

Deadline is Friday

I expect them to add Smith and Middleton.

The best exposed player is going to be Kyle McGowin, so I wouldn't worry about him getting picked.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Deadline is Friday

I expect them to add Smith and Middleton.

The best exposed player is going to be Kyle McGowin, so I wouldn't worry about him getting picked.

I never would've expected O'Grady to be scooped up last Rule 5 either. McGowin sits 92 with a good slider and deceptive pre-release motion. I think at most, someone might pick him up with the intention to convert him into a reliever, which many scouts projected him as in the first place.

[ettin]

If they add Smith and Middleton it is probably Ege, who is a true LOOGY, and possibly Navarro or Ji-Man Choi that get the ax off the 40-man.