Matt Shoemaker or Nate Smith?

[Angel Oracle]

How soon before it's time to send Shoe to AAA, and call up Nate Smith?

 

Heaney and Skaggs may both be a month away from pitching in a MLB game.

Who knows how soon before Wilson is ready to pitch in a MLB game.

 

GRich, Santiago, Weave, Tropeano, Smith might be what the Halos have to go with until June 1?

[DMVol]

Probably couldn't stretch him out that quickly but I thought Rasmus had some potential as a starter when Scioscia did the "bullpen days' thing in 2014.....he hasn't been very effective from the pen in limited appearances so far....and he has had problems with injuries...

[Jason]

My guess is that Show gets a couple more starts before a move like that is made. Hopefully the offense is waking up to help Shoe out

[Dave Saltzer]

How soon before it's time to send Shoe to AAA, and call up Nate Smith?

 

Heaney and Skaggs may both be a month away from pitching in a MLB game.

Who knows how soon before Wilson is ready to pitch in a MLB game.

 

GRich, Santiago, Weave, Tropeano, Smith might be what the Halos have to go with until June 1?

As I said in the prospect thread, I don't see Scioscia going with Smith anytime soon. Scioscia prefers harder throwing pitchers, and isn't too comfortable with guys in the 88-90 range (if only Weaver were back at those speeds). Smith would have to prove a lot more in AAA (remember, he got hammered there last year when he got promoted--and trust me, Scioscia is aware of that), so he will discount the few good starts so far. Shoe will have to struggle tremendously as well before this might happen. Skaggs is the more likely candidate if he can get stretched out.

[stormngt]

Probably couldn't stretch him out that quickly but I thought Rasmus had some potential as a starter when Scioscia did the "bullpen days' thing in 2014.....he hasn't been very effective from the pen in limited appearances so far....and he has had problems with injuries...

He got shelled by Chicago and gave up 2 run Homer against Seattle when probably should have been pulled. They tried getting 4 innings from him. Rasmus is fine but probably wouldn't be stretched as a starter

[Chuck]

Nate Smith is throwing as hard as Shoemaker, in the 88-92 MPH range. Since last season he's seen an uptick in his velo by 2-3 MPH. 

 

I just think he'll give us better innings than Shoe, and he's typically avoided the home run over his stints in the minors, unlike Shoemaker. 

[Second Base]

Nate Smith is throwing as hard as Shoemaker, in the 88-92 MPH range. Since last season he's seen an uptick in his velo by 2-3 MPH.

I just think he'll give us better innings than Shoe, and he's typically avoided the home run over his stints in the minors, unlike Shoemaker.

The uptick in velo is still up for debate. In 2014, he sat 88/89. The first half of 2015 he sat 91/92. By the end of the year he was back down at 86-88, and got hammered. So far this year, he's reading at 89/90.

I think last year, he just started throwing as hard as he could for as long as he could and faded at the end of the year. This year, he's come out similar to before. Because he's stronger, he's grazing 90, but I think last year's uptick may not be something to expect going forward.

And as for who should be in the majors right now, let's let Shoe get himself settled first. He was shaky in Spring and is still shaky, but is flashing 2014 form in bits and pieces and is already throwing better than he did last year. Now if in 3-4 more starts he still hasn't gained any sort of consistency, abs Smith is still dominating in AAA, then make the move.

[Chuck]

The uptick in velo is still up for debate. In 2014, he sat 88/89. The first half of 2015 he sat 91/92. By the end of the year he was back down at 86-88, and got hammered. So far this year, he's reading at 89/90.

I think last year, he just started throwing as hard as he could for as long as he could and faded at the end of the year. This year, he's come out similar to before. Because he's stronger, he's grazing 90, but I think last year's uptick may not be something to expect going forward.

And as for who should be in the majors right now, let's let Shoe get himself settled first. He was shaky in Spring and is still shaky, but is flashing 2014 form in bits and pieces and is already throwing better than he did last year. Now if in 3-4 more starts he still hasn't gained any sort of consistency, abs Smith is still dominating in AAA, then make the move.

 

 

I just think Sosh should have a short leash on Shoe going forward if he's going to remain in the rotation. 

 

I'm good with a home run here and there, especially if it's a solo jack... but Shoe gives up some costly HR's that put the Angels offense in comeback mode early on, then he gets yanked and it puts stress on our bullpen. 

[nando714]

Kyle Kendrick

[Chuck]

Also.. I'm not worried about a guy hitting 88-90 MPH if he commands his pitches. 

 

The Phillies young arms: Aaron Nola and Jered Eickhoff hit 88-91 with their FB and has been off to a great start. 

[totdprods]

I'll stick with Shoe a little while longer. He hasn't done terrible and the team is still in the thick of it.

Reasons being we are still thin on RHP starters for the foreseeable future, and if Shoe can get it together it allows the team to tick that off the needs for another season or two. I can see him sort of assuming Jered's spot in the rotation for next year - the inconsistent right handed starter who has better success in Anaheim.

Whatever Nate's doing is working, and I think we may see him for a spot start or two this year. Overall if we hold onto Skaggs, Heaney, Santiago, and Mahle keeps it up, Smith may be 'relatively' expendable and an important trade piece. We have so little to work with, but left-handed starters are one area we may be long on in the short-term.

[Dave Saltzer]

Also.. I'm not worried about a guy hitting 88-90 MPH if he commands his pitches. 

 

The Phillies young arms: Aaron Nola and Jered Eickhoff hit 88-91 with their FB and has been off to a great start. 

Chuck,

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he doesn't have a role or doesn't deserve a chance. It's just my take on Scioscia's views on pitching the velo is king, and he tends to disregard results compared to velo. How often have we held onto "hard-throwers" who weren't getting the job done and kept down "soft-tossers" who were performing under Scioscia? And, how long have we seen Scioscia favor a "veteran" over a prospect? My comments were more about the reality of the team than on what is fair or right.

 

I do think that Shoemaker deserves more time to figure things out before getting sent down. He has shown shades of the 2014 form, and, if he gets it back together, could provide much better innings for the team over the course of the season. I'd give him another 5-10 starts before reassessing.

[Inside Pitch]

Smith would have to prove a lot more in AAA (remember, he got hammered there last year when he got promoted--and trust me, Scioscia is aware of that), so he will discount the few good starts so far. Shoe will have to struggle tremendously as well before this might happen. Skaggs is the more likely candidate if he can get stretched out.

 

Pretty sure Mike Scioscia understands the concept of pitcher fatigue -- Smith was spent, the Pan Am Games really seemed to tire him.   IMO, Smith's biggest problem isn't velocity or a poor showing at the end of the last year..... as you pointed out it's Skaggs.   

[Inside Pitch]

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he doesn't have a role or doesn't deserve a chance. It's just my take on Scioscia's views on pitching the velo is king, and he tends to disregard results compared to velo. How often have we held onto "hard-throwers" who weren't getting the job done and kept down "soft-tossers" who were performing under Scioscia? And, how long have we seen Scioscia favor a "veteran" over a prospect? My comments were more about the reality of the team than on what is fair or right.

 

 

MS likes hard throwers late in games in large part because they tend to offer a different look than the exiting SP.  Perhaps you could list the many hard tossing SPs we have held on to for too long during MS's tenure in Anaheim?  

 

While we are at it... Was it Mike Scioscia that moved a veteran to the BP to make room for John Lackey?  Was it Mike Scioscia who moved Fernando Rodney out of the closer role for Jordan Walden?   Perhaps you've forgotten Scott Shields took Appier's rotation spot when he was let go...   Who was it that decided Jered Weaver should be starting over Jeff Weaver?  MS was also the guy that moved Bartolo out of the rotation for Saunders in 2007, they did the whole phantom injury BS but it was pretty clear the guy throwing every day in the BP wasn't hurt...  Tyler Chatwood got 25+ starts in 2011 as a 21 year old.

 

For all his faults and tendencies to give veterans a long rope, the rotation is the one area where MS has historically been relatively quick to act...

Edited April 27, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[mtangelsfan]

As I said in the prospect thread, I don't see Scioscia going with Smith anytime soon. Scioscia prefers harder throwing pitchers, and isn't too comfortable with guys in the 88-90 range (if only Weaver were back at those speeds). Smith would have to prove a lot more in AAA (remember, he got hammered there last year when he got promoted--and trust me, Scioscia is aware of that), so he will discount the few good starts so far. Shoe will have to struggle tremendously as well before this might happen. Skaggs is the more likely candidate if he can get stretched out.

 

Skaggs has missed his last two starts due to being exhausted.  I don't think he's going to be back any time soon

[oater]

I concur that Shoe deserves more time to show whether he should stay in the rotation.  At the same time, I would have no problem testing Nate Smith in the starting rotation.

 

Yes, Smith got roughed up when he was first promoted to Salt Lake--but this should be expected.  When Shoe was first promoted to Salt Lake he did even worse than Smith (in 2011, he went from a 2.48 ERA at Arkansas to 8.14 ERA at Salt Lake).  While it is a small sample size, Smith appears to have already made the necessary adjustments to succeed at Salt Lake.  Currently, 1.75 ERA, 8.4 SO/9 and 0.985 WHIP.  Arguably, Shoe never made that adjustment.  

[totdprods]

Shoe's pitches don't do as well in SLC's environment. Not familiar enough with Smith to know what he has, but that's part of the reason Shoemaker's AAA numbers weren't as impressive.

[tomsred]

At lot of the allure to Shoemaker is his splitter, but it's a high maintenance pitch.  I think the early hope, especially after 2014's performance was that he could consistently keep it down and execute it well.  Unfortunately, that wasn't the case last year, and so far this year, it's sometimes left up in the zone.  His fastball doesn't seem to be an effective out pitch.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

How soon before it's time to send Shoe to AAA, and call up Nate Smith?

 

Heaney and Skaggs may both be a month away from pitching in a MLB game.

Who knows how soon before Wilson is ready to pitch in a MLB game.

 

GRich, Santiago, Weave, Tropeano, Smith might be what the Halos have to go with until June 1?

Anyone except Shoemaker

[Docwaukee]

Smith had a rough outing tonight.  Not that it means much, but I think anyone expecting him to just step in and be better than Shoe could be in for a disappointment.   Smith isn't likely to be anything more than a fringe middle of the rotation guy at his peak which means he probably barely a 5 right now.  

 

Our best bet to shore up the rotation is Skaggs and Wilson.  

[arch stanton]

Skaggs and Wilson go a long way toward determining how good the team is in the second half.

[Angel Oracle]

At lot of the allure to Shoemaker is his splitter, but it's a high maintenance pitch. I think the early hope, especially after 2014's performance was that he could consistently keep it down and execute it well. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case last year, and so far this year, it's sometimes left up in the zone. His fastball doesn't seem to be an effective out pitch.

Which is why most pitchers whose main out pitch is the splitter succeed in the bullpen vs the rotation?

[Angel Oracle]

Skaggs and Wilson go a long way toward determining how good the team is in the second half.

Especially with Heaney's uncertainty

[Inside Pitch]

Nate Smith got SLCed last night, Brutal game that was 14-13 when I finally fell asleep...  15 MPH winds in that park leads to LOL...

Edited April 29, 2016 by Inside Pitch