Online Poker vs Fantasy Sports

[HaloFan85]

With all the Draft Kings commercials on television lately, I've been wondering why it's perfectly okay to play online fantasy sports but it's highly illegal to play online poker, especially when you have zero control over the outcome/results of the players (lineups) you're basically betting on in fantasy sports.

 

Here's an article that came out just the other day on the topic and I was just wondering how others around here felt about fantasy sports vs online poker (or even poker in general) as far as skill and/or luck required for each game.  I just don't see how they can classify fantasy sports as a "skill" game.

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/02/online-poker-vs-daily-fantasy-which-creates-more-winners.html

 

PS  This guy in the comments section going by the name 'historyspeaks10' says poker requires zero skill and says he knows what he's talking about because he's been playing poker for 46 years!  And then he offers this little nugget: "as someone that's cashed twice in WSOP events, including a 3rd place finish, as well as winning and cashing in tournaments all over the world, i can tell you there is more luck involved than anything else. positive thinking and attitude will benefit you more at gambling than anything else."

 

Lol.

 

[Adam]

Gambling should be legal across the board

[Adam]

Fantasy sports is gambler vs. gambler. It is absolutely a game of skill because the better players are going to make the better choices based on statistical probabilities than inferior players. While luck is involved in each individual match up and in each week over the long haul, the better player will win. 

[mrwicked]

i think the more games played (baseball, hockey, etc) it just becomes who can out-work who.

stay on the waiver wire and pickup the hot players, and you will never lose.

but it requires a sh*t ton of time/effort.

 

for football, there is much more luck involved since they play so few games.  this is why fantasy football always seemed boring to me. i want to out work and beat people, not just take a roll of the dice on how my draft went and who gets injured. it still takes skill though to draft well and choose who to play week in and week out. 

 

poker is all about reading people. that takes plenty of skill.

Edited October 5, 2015 by mrwicked

[HaloFan85]

Fantasy sports is gambler vs. gambler. It is absolutely a game of skill because the better players are going to make the better choices based on statistical probabilities than inferior players. While luck is involved in each individual match up and in each week over the long haul, the better player will win. 

So exactly like poker, yeah?

 

That's pretty much what I'm confused about.  Why is poker then classified as a non-skill game and considered straight up gambling?  Makes no sense unless you consider the level of cheating potential involved, which is something I don't believe they can take into consideration when classifying these forms of gaming.

[Adam]

So exactly like poker, yeah?

 

That's pretty much what I'm confused about.  Why is poker then classified as a non-skill game and considered straight up gambling?  Makes no sense unless you consider the level of cheating potential involved, which is something I don't believe they can take into consideration when classifying these forms of gaming.

`

Gotcha. I don't know why it is classified that way. Silly. It clearly is a game of skill. 

[Schildog]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=http://t.co/V478g7Ty0S

[Brandon]

It's a joke. When they passed the bill to outlaw online poker fantasy sports wasn't what it is today and was one of the few things excluded. The irony is the fantasy sports sites are exact replicas of the online poker rooms with various tournaments, buy-ins, and even the interface is identical. Actually, a lot of the guys doing very well are ex-online players that basically have created their algorithms in the same mathematical formulas to "beat" online poker.

 

The way some people play these new online fantasy sport sites is identical to the methods used in online poker and have both be skill games.....the lottery or casino games like roulette where you have no control of the outcome after your bet are games of luck.

[Brandon]

i think the more games played (baseball, hockey, etc) it just becomes who can out-work who.

stay on the waiver wire and pickup the hot players, and you will never lose.

but it requires a sh*t ton of time/effort.

 

for football, there is much more luck involved since they play so few games.  this is why fantasy football always seemed boring to me. i want to out work and beat people, not just take a roll of the dice on how my draft went and who gets injured. it still takes skill though to draft well and choose who to play week in and week out. 

 

poker is all about reading people. that takes plenty of skill.

 

 

That element is there in live poker for sure. With online poker, some of the best players in the world that play crazy high stakes are purely math based taking a lot of elements out of the game. They call it GTO or Game Theory Optimal which is purely math based decisions based on certain aspects of play. It's pretty unique, you could essentially say poker has been solved. Not too long ago a bunch of these high stakes guys using GTO beat a poker bot some college created. It really was a math game opposed to conventional poker.

 

Actually, a lot of guys that killed it online were math guys that were ahead of their time utilizing this type of play beating regular players. The main poker message board is actually pretty comical in the theory and analysis sections where it's more like a math chatroom and people talk in numbers instead of words.

[Guest]

They're both a blight on society. I hate Draft Kings, and the shit it's doing to sports.

[Tank]

`

Gotcha. I don't know why it is classified that way. Silly. It clearly is a game of skill.

You've obviously never seen me play.

[deepdrive]

You've obviously never seen me play.

Maybe we could put on a clinic for him on how unskilled it can be.

[mrwicked]

`

Gotcha. I don't know why it is classified that way. Silly. It clearly is a game of skill. 

 

it really has nothing to do with "skill" vs "non-skill" based gaming. its classified that way because

* brick and mortar gambling peeps like sheldon anderson dont want funds flowing to online gaming, thus they got the law passed to make the illegal.

* the NFL paid a ton of money to explicitly list fantasy sports as OK when they passed the law. it's pretty comical.

 

they are exactly the same thing. fantasy just had expensive lawyers to get them a loophole written.

 

i doubt it stays legal for long.

Edited October 6, 2015 by mrwicked

[Adam]

The rake in those online fantasy things make playing them a bad deal. 

[gotbeer]

Another question.  But why is betting on fantasy sports legal, but betting on sports illegal?  

 

And hypothetically, wouldn't it be harder for a team to throw a game without gaining suspicion, than say an individual player throwing a game?  You look at some of the payouts that is happening.  The gambler can make more money in one game, than the players that he is betting on.  At some point, the gamblers are going to hedge their bets and make sure that that player everyone has, doesn't have the game they are supposed to have.  

[mrwicked]

Another question.  But why is betting on fantasy sports legal, but betting on sports illegal?  

 

And hypothetically, wouldn't it be harder for a team to throw a game without gaining suspicion, than say an individual player throwing a game?  You look at some of the payouts that is happening.  The gambler can make more money in one game, than the players that he is betting on.  At some point, the gamblers are going to hedge their bets and make sure that that player everyone has, doesn't have the game they are supposed to have.  

 

see my post above.

[HaloFan85]

Clearly, one of the main reasons fantasy sports is legal is because of the amount of added revenue it generates from people wanting to watch more games.

[HaloFan85]

And just when fantasy sports is starting to explode, a major scandal akin to insider trading is beginning to unfold.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/sports/fanduel-draftkings-fantasy-employees-bet-rivals.html?_r=0

[Brandon]

Here you guys go:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

 

I still don't remember the loophole that the government gave for allowing fantasy sports.

 

The funny thing is they tried to ban online poker and it failed, so they re-did the bill and tossed it in some SAFE Port Act that was against terrorism so that it would pass.

[mrwicked]

Here you guys go:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

 

I still don't remember the loophole that the government gave for allowing fantasy sports.

 

The funny thing is they tried to ban online poker and it failed, so they re-did the bill and tossed it in some SAFE Port Act that was against terrorism so that it would pass.

 

the full txt is here.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-120/pdf/STATUTE-120-Pg1884.pdf

 

page 70/71 explicitly creates a safe havey for for fantasy. shows what big $$ lobbyists can do for you.

i think they'll change their minds soon.

[HeavenlyHalos]

Good topic. It is a joke that online poker is outlawed or really that any non-skill gambling is outlawed. If people want to risk their money, I don't see why the government has to baby-sit them and tell them no. It's all because they don't know how to properly tax it so they just make it illegal.